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Old Tue Jan 07, 2003, 10:09pm
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For those football fans there were some monster comebacks during this past weekend but one which I want to bring to your attention to get my point across.

G-men vs. the Niners.

At the end of the game the Giants botched the snap and the place holder threw a pass downfield to a linemen (who was eligable and reported to the official). The linemen was literally tackled by one of the niner defensemen preventing him from making the catch. You could see the expression of the Niner player thinking that he had given the Giants another chance.

The officials threw only one flag - Linemen (not the one who reported) down field and by Rule Game Over. After the game was over the NFL reviewed the game and realized the error.

There should have been 2 penalties on the play. Line men downfield AND Defensive Pass interference meaning the penalties would offset and the Giants would have another play.

Jim Fassel, coach of the Giants received a phone call from the league saying that the officials blew it and his team should have had another opportunity to kick the game winning field goal.

Now the Giants have no-one but themselves to blame for blowing a 24 point lead, but the fact remains that they should have been given another opportunity to win the game based upon a RULE violation. All they received was a SORRY from the League and their season is Over.

Ok Ok enough about Football. In baseball, although there have not been many protests upheld, there is a procedure in place that should a rule be violated and have a direct effect on the outcome of the game, the game could be replayed from that point in time where the misapplication occured.

Should baseball be treated like football? meaning the game is the game and whatever happens happens? In other words NO Protests allowed. If you get "hosed" well that's part of life deal with it and move on or do you think that the rule should be kept?

In LL, protest procedures could delay the game a long time since according to LL Tournament rules, a manager if he /she disagrees with a RULING can go all the way up the chain of command.


Should the Game be the Game and so be it? or Do you like the Protest rule the way it is?

Pete Booth
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Old Tue Jan 07, 2003, 11:26pm
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Being from Pittsburgh, we really did'nt mind the hosing the Giants got however, why in the world the League even brought to everyone attention a penalty that wasn't called, is beyond me. Now see if you can arrange one for the Jets.

IMO that the protest in Baseball is almost like the replay in Football and Hockey. I for one have no problem with getting it right or even being overruled. I understand, unlike the other sports, when its over, its over. I like the suggestion that it be applied to Baseball. Bottom line (and I'm gonna get blasted on this), its only a GAME.

Mabey the historians can offer some insight into the protest rule and why the game has a built in forgiveness clause for the misapplication of certain rules.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 10:26am
Rog Rog is offline
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Talking

Schucks, after working darn near twenty years and six different leagues I'm still trying to find any umpire who ever had a legitimate protest filed in their game which was formally heard.
We have all had to deal with the nitwit coach who blows his top and screams out: "I'm protesting this game"; but, I have yet to find a fellow blue in these here parts of the country who ever had an actual protest filed and followed up by a coach.
Somewhere out there I am sure there must be some poor blue who has had it happen to them.....
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 11:00am
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True. For every thousand coaches who say they're protesting, how many protests actually make their way through the system?

I've had two protests, both in SP softball. One involved what a team thought I should have called a crash at home plate. It was more on the basis of "all crashes are illegal," not on knowledge of the rule. It was denied.

The other was a real joke. Every team in the league had been using a certain model bat all year. Then, in a playoff game, after a home run, the defense called attention to that bat as being illegal. (The fact that their own team had been using it during the same game didn't deter them.) The manager of the team that hit the home run claimed that both teams had been using it all year, that the other team had been using it in that very game, and that the league commissioner had assured him the bat was legal. So I allowed the HR, but warned the offense that if the bat turned out not to be legal, they would lose the protest and the game would have to be continued where it left off. (The bat was ASA legal, but it was one of those "does this qualify as a double-wall bat?" issues.)

Oddly, that protest was upheld, and the game was scheduled to be continued from that point the next day. However, the offended team didn't show up.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 11:06am
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Red face

Rog,

I had one go all the way to Regional this past All Star tourney. Manager protested my call, the Tournement Director overturned my call, the other manager protested, the district UIC upheld it, and so did Regional. I gave them the option to go to Williamsport but we were already 1/2 hour into it, so the manager said "uncle". Turns out I was right, and Regional was wrong, but karma kicked it and it turned into a non-issue in the end.

In football, it's whole different animal. It's hard, if not impossible, to come back on another day and pick up a game.

Kyle
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 11:28am
Rog Rog is offline
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What exactly was the protest over?
I never have quite understood this 4 step procedure -
"Manager protested my call,
the Tournement Director overturned my call,
the other manager protested,
the district UIC upheld it,
and so did Regional."

Much less letting the tournament director be the solitary arbiter of any protest. A committee process, using people familiar with the rules and interpretations, seems to be a more viable option.....
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 12:12pm
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R3, one out, ground ball to F6. Throw goes to 1st, close play, long stretch, but ball beats runner and U1 calls out(four man crew, and I'm PU.)BUT, the ball's on the ground, and U1 doesn't see it(his bad, he didn't get his 90 degrees). BR is heading back to his dugout after the out call, chaos ensues. O manager yells at BR to get back, D manager yells to tag returning BR, which he does. Then I yell time. O manager requests time, and goes to U1 to get help on his call. U1 calls for a conference in which we inform him that indeed the ball was on the ground. U1 calls the BR safe. D manager protests the ball was live and BR should be out on the tag. I say no, the runner is protected back to the bag on a bad call. TD overturns me, District UIC and Regional concur.

There's set procedure for LL All Star protests. Time consuming? Yes, but hopefully, somehow you can get the correct answer.

Kyle
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