The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 12:59pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 579
Coaches & Officials Meeting

My Association is planning on holding a preseason coaches & officials forum.

It has been many years since a meeting like this has been held in my area where the coaches and officials are in one room.

Have any of you participated in such a forum?

What topics would you suggest be covered?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 01:21pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Be sure to cover the new rule change for coaches. One technical automatically includes ejection with a two game suspension, 10 free throws plus possession for the other team and a $1000 fine. Make sure you enforce it when the season starts.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 01:32pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,155
We have had coach's roundtables before where coaches come to a meeting and talk about their expectations or things they like to see official do.

I personally see these as a waste of time. Coaches usually complain about the same things over and over and I feel we learn next to nothing. But some feel they are good.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 02:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 254
Communication

I've sat in on a couple of these, but agree with Rut.

Coordinators tell us the same thing every year - coaches want us to be able to communicate with them. They want to be 'heard.' Is communication vital? Of course.

But as far as your roundtable goes, I think an overview of POE's, rule changes, and a Q&A with coaches would cover the basics.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 03:30pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,718
If you want an effective and meaningful interaction with the coaches, invite a local college coach (the higher the level, the better) to come speak to entire group.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 03:49pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,419
It's A Back Slapping Club ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
We have had coach's roundtables before where coaches come to a meeting and talk about their expectations or things they like to see official do. I personally see these as a waste of time.
Agree. We had one of these several years ago. One top-notch boys coach and one top-notch girls coach talked about what they expected from officials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
... coaches want us to be able to communicate with them. They want to be heard ...
They pretty much spent twenty minutes talking about what Matt S. described above. All of us already knew that. What a waste of time.

The two invitees were state champions several times over, who always got along well with almost all officials (most of the great coaches do), seldom showing any unsporting behavior.

I would love to get a few 5W-15L coaches in a room (with the door locked) and have them explain to us, for the hundredth time (but this time with no technical fouls) how bad officials making bad calls cause them to not make the state tournament each season. Now that would be interesting.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
We have had coach's roundtables before where coaches come to a meeting and talk about their expectations or things they like to see official do.

I personally see these as a waste of time. Coaches usually complain about the same things over and over and I feel we learn next to nothing. But some feel they are good.

Peace
useless i agree
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:17am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,155
I just do not get why we do not take the time get officials better with information that actually helps them. Taking with coaches is nice, but is repetitive and useless in the long run. It is like us talking about ratings when we no only do not control them, there is not much we can do to change them for the most part.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 07:33am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
..


They pretty much spent twenty minutes talking about what Matt S. described above. All of us already knew that. What a waste of time.

...
Well, a D3 supervisor just spoke to our preseason rules group for over an hour about the importance of his officials being able to be effective communicators with coaches.

The week before a D1 head coach spoke to us for almost an hour and 90% of it was about official/coach communication.

So apparently, it is not something that is known to all officials, nor is there is a perception that officials as a whole are doing a good job of it.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 12:09pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Well, a D3 supervisor just spoke to our preseason rules group for over an hour about the importance of his officials being able to be effective communicators with coaches.

The week before a D1 head coach spoke to us for almost an hour and 90% of it was about official/coach communication.

So apparently, it is not something that is known to all officials, nor is there is a perception that officials as a whole are doing a good job of it.
I would take that much different from a supervisor that has to deal with coaches and their overall complaints. Usually, the coach's overall complaints can be filtered or put into context. Supervisors often know who their coaches are or who has issues with them. Listening to a coach talk about communication can be taken with a grain of salt because we know that specific coach is not the most professional coach along.

For example, our Head Clinician for the IHSA is also a former D1 official and current NAIA supervisor of one of the top leagues in the country. We have a staff meeting that involves both the coaches and the officials that work for the league. Last year there was a coach that tried to make an issue (I cannot remember the specific issue) in that meeting about something an official said to him about a rule. Well, that coach is known by the officials and the supervisor to be a big jerk and our supervisor handled it very well. But when we talked afterward it was clear that this coach was being obstinant. So it was clear to not take him seriously. Supervisors know who their coaches are and often have to stand up to them when they get silly.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 12:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,145
The coaches that complain the loudest about officials not communicating are typically the whinier coaches who spend more time officiating the game than coaching (in my experience). There are coaches who want an explanation on every play or who want to spend the whole game talking to us, and when we don't fall into that trap they act like we are poor communicators. There are coaches who think that every time they get a T that it is a consequence of poor communication from the official. So while it's all well and good that communication is important to coaches (and officials), the reality is that our definition of what it means to be a good communicator from an official's standpoint is sometimes (often?) contradictory to what a coach's definition is.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 01:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 254
This

SC Official nailed it:

"the reality is that our definition of what it means to be a good communicator from an official's standpoint is sometimes (often?) contradictory to what a coach's definition is"
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 01:29pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The coaches that complain the loudest about officials not communicating are typically the whinier coaches who spend more time officiating the game than coaching (in my experience). There are coaches who want an explanation on every play or who want to spend the whole game talking to us, and when we don't fall into that trap they act like we are poor communicators. There are coaches who think that every time they get a T that it is a consequence of poor communication from the official. So while it's all well and good that communication is important to coaches (and officials), the reality is that our definition of what it means to be a good communicator from an official's standpoint is sometimes (often?) contradictory to what a coach's definition is.
Well, in the case of the D3 supervisor, his asked the 12 HCs would they rather have an official who is a great communicator or an official who is a great play caller. By 11-1 the communicator won out.

We can poo-poo this all we want, but at the college level coaches do have influence with supervisors. If a veteran college supervisor (who is also used as a video observer for major conferences) feels it is important, I'm not going to act like I know better.

And, as some of you like to do, it doesn't mean a great communicator can be a crappy play-caller. What it means is that a great play-caller is going to suffer if he is a crappy communicator. And a 100% of the time when I hear discussions about veteran big-time officials whom I think are not that good, I find out that official has a great reputation for communicating and running a game.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Mon Sep 25, 2017 at 01:32pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 02:21pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,762
The only time I ever thought anything like this was beneficial was at a camp one summer. And it was a round table type discussion with a couple coaches - a D-1 coach, a D-3 coach, and a HS coach (multi-state championships), and then 3 refs who were on staff at the camp. A question would be asked, and then any and all of them could respond. The questions were written down and submitted by campers the day before.

Some of the questions were about communication, etc...but some were about rules and game situations and the conversations got pretty interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 25, 2017, 03:02pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Well, in the case of the D3 supervisor, his asked the 12 HCs would they rather have an official who is a great communicator or an official who is a great play caller. By 11-1 the communicator won out.

We can poo-poo this all we want, but at the college level coaches do have influence with supervisors. If a veteran college supervisor (who is also used as a video observer for major conferences) feels it is important, I'm not going to act like I know better.
At the college level, I totally agree with you. At the high school level (at least in my area) I would disagree a little. High school coaches are a different animal. They tend to be less professional and often have less perspective on how to deal with officials. They tend to take things very personal or think that we have issues with them personally, instead of us just doing our job. College coaches have their jobs in the balance. They lose they lose their livelihood on many levels (or it has not changed totally). Not so much the case with high school coaches that if they lose their coaching position, they are still likely teachers. And in many cases here, you will not be hired as just a coach. You will have to work for the school district in order to coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
And, as some of you like to do, it doesn't mean a great communicator can be a crappy play-caller. What it means is that a great play-caller is going to suffer if he is a crappy communicator. And a 100% of the time when I hear discussions about veteran big-time officials whom I think are not that good, I find out that official has a great reputation for communicating and running a game.
And even the big time officials just like everyone else has a coach or two that does not like them in a big way. You do have to be a good communicator, but you also have coaches that are held to a higher standard at the college level.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meeting the coaches voiceoflg General / Off-Topic 4 Thu May 28, 2015 05:12pm
HC won't come to captains/coaches meeting Chris Whitten Basketball 25 Sun Jan 11, 2015 04:21am
FED coaches and captains meeting constable Basketball 44 Tue Oct 29, 2013 05:09pm
Advice on UIC meeting with coaches! timharris Baseball 16 Tue May 22, 2007 10:13am
Rules meeting with rec coaches DaveASA/FED Softball 7 Wed Oct 18, 2006 06:47pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1