Successive time outs

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Team A (not realizing it has no time outs left) requests a time out ... requesting the TO is a TF ...

Thanks to LeeBallanfant. I just noticed that a technical foul is not charged for being granted an excess timeout, but rather a technical foul is charged for requesting an excess timeout.

Originally Posted by reffish

Kinda neat what you learn when you read the Rules Book.

A team shall not: Request an excess time-out.

This wording is quite odd.

Team A has used all their alloted timeouts. Ball handler A1 loses the handle on the ball and has an interrupted dribble when Coach A requests an excess timeout. Official, noting that a Team A player is not in control (holding or dribbling live ball), knows that he cannot grant Team A a timeout in that situation and doesn't immediately grant the timeout, but instead, sounds his whistle and charges Team A with a technical foul for "request(ing) an excess timeout". Team A is never granted their requested timeout.

Is the official correct?

Of course not, but something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

The official may never find out that Team A requested an excess timeout:

The scorer shall: Signal the nearer official each time a team is granted a time-out in excess of the allotted number.

But, the official already has the knowledge:

The scorer shall: Record the time-out information charged to each team and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Why would an official grant a timeout that a team does not have? TF and move on seems pretty obvious, right? Or am I missing something here?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Why would an official grant a timeout that a team does not have?

With few exceptions (successive timeouts with zeros on the clock) officials always grant timeouts when legally requested (team's player holding, or dribbling, or dead ball), even if the team has already used all their alloted timeouts. Even when, due to a mistake involving the scorekeeper and officials, the coach had not been informed that he had used all his alloted timeouts. That's why there is an excess timeout technical foul the rulebook. Also, since it's "penalized when discovered", a technical foul can be charged several minutes, and several live balls and dead balls, after the excess timeout is granted (possibly due to a corrected scorebook mistake, or a communication problem between the scorekeeper and the officials).

Chris Webber's Infamous Timeout: https://youtu.be/-QPB9NBUG2g

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Why would an official grant a timeout that a team does not have? TF and move on seems pretty obvious, right? Or am I missing something here?

Officials are not scorekeepers. We grant them when they ask (and there is the video that shows they requested a timeout). There is no rules support to not grant a timeout when requested. They should know their situation better than we should.

Peace

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Officials are not scorekeepers. We grant them when they ask (and there is the video that shows they requested a timeout). There is no rules support to not grant a timeout when requested. They should know their situation better than we should.

Peace

Two things here.

First, when a team is out of timeouts, the scorekeeper let's me know and I make the coach aware of it.

Second, I guess I was thinking that when whoever said "grant the timeout when there is none remaining," I guess I thought they meant give them that 30 or 60 seconds that constitute a timeout. I didn't realize they meant stop play, realize they have none, and T immediately. I guess that was my mistake. Apologies.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I didn't realize they meant stop play, realize they have none, and T immediately.

They still get their timeout. I'd give him sixty if he requests it because the coach is already pissed at somebody (himself, an assistant, a scorekeeper, or a player) and he'll probably need the full sixty seconds to calm down. Thirty seconds (unless they request it) would be like pouring gasoline on a fire.

[UNIgiantslayers]

I guess it's good I happened to open this thread, because I've never noticed when reading that rule that they get the timeout at the expense of a technical foul. I've always been under the impression that they get the T and no timeout. Good thing I haven't had it happen in a game yet.

ART. 6 . . . Time-outs in excess of the allotted number may be requested and shall be granted
during regulation playing time or any extra period at the expense of a technical foul for each, as in
10-1-7.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A has used all their alloted timeouts. Ball handler A1 loses the handle on the ball and has an interrupted dribble when Coach A requests an excess timeout. Official, noting that a Team A player is not in control (holding or dribbling live ball), knows that he cannot grant Team A a timeout in that situation and doesn't immediately grant the timeout, but instead, sounds his whistle and charges Team A with a technical foul for "request(ing) an excess timeout". Team A is never granted their requested timeout.

Is the official correct?

Of course not, and nothing is rotten. Since A did not meet the conditions for being granted a TO (PC or at disposal), Coach A did not really "request" a TO in the meaning of the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Of course not ...

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course not ....

Agree. I would still like to see:

A team shall not: Request and be granted an excess time-out.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. I would still like to see:

A team shall not: Request and be granted an excess time-out.

I think you have a solution in search of a problem. If you add that language, you are going to create the impression in some that the official can decline to grant and thereby not give the TF. Has anyone ever heard of the current language causing an issue in the real world? Anyone? Ever?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

If you add that language, you are going to create the impression in some that the official can decline to grant and thereby not give the TF.

Good point. It just seemed like a quick, simple fix to a solution in search of a problem. I was just trying to be proactive. I didn't realize there would be any unintended consequences.

And we do have officials, some who have lurked on this Forum, who believe that they can ignore a request for a timeout from a coach if the official knows it would be an excess timeout leading to a technical foul.