Ref Shortage

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. But still, 13.6 million soccer participants ain't nothing to sneeze at.

Maybe not in Illinois, but we are certainly a country that "cares about soccer".

OK, then why are they talking about a shortage of officials in soccer? You think people become officials out of thin air? Usually people join a sport because they either had a kid that played it or they have interest in the game. Most newer officials we see here are older than me and usually people that join their sport after their kids have graduated and said to themselves, "I can do that." So yes the number is not bad, but it does not translate into officials. I stand by what I said, soccer is not the this countries sport. I would not say that about Hockey and Hockey at least is followed heavily at the pro or NHL level.

My comment is not about Illinois either. There are states that do not pack the house for youth soccer.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Pratt and Whitney Stadium at Rentschler Field, in East Hartford, Connecticut (home of the University of Connecticut football Huskies) seats 41,000. USA Soccer has men's, or women's, games there about twice a year, and the stadium is almost filled to capacity for these games. Granted, fans are, for the most part, parents (soccer Moms) with children, or immigrants watching their home country, but soccer is certainly a lot more popular now compared to when I went to high school back in ancient times.

USA soccer? You are using USA, international Soccer as a judge for something in this conversation? Really? Are TV ratings on par with other sports in our country? Michigan and Tennessee fill up their football stadiums multiple times a year with over 100,000 people. And they can and do get ratings even a regional broadcast gets during those games in the Northeast? There are high school football games that get better TV ratings in our local market than the pro MLS team in Chicago. And most major cities do not have a soccer team for a reason. Heck the women's league

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Soccer certainly isn't anywhere near up there with basketball, and football, but it's become a pretty popular sport over the past fifty years. Things change. At one time the biggest sports in the United States were horse racing, and boxing. Look at what happened to them.

Yeah, but they said soccer was going to take over 20 years ago when the MLS came onto the scene. I am still waiting for kids to play that sport on anything other than football beyond some youth and middle school level.

Again the issue is shortage of officials, not how many kids might play a sport at some time.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... shortage of officials in soccer ...

All three of my children played scholastic soccer, and one played collegiate soccer. I can only remember attending two, or three, night games. For some reason, Connecticut high school soccer is played in the afternoon, usually on weekdays. Most people have to work for a living, and most work during the day.

We're having the same problem with our basketball officials. Middle school, and high school freshman, games are usually played in the afternoon (3:30 p.m., 4:00 p.m.). We just don't have enough available officials to cover those games. Some of those games only get one official. Many middle school officials work their middle school game, stay dressed, get in their car, and head to a nearby high school junior varsity game. Others work the freshman game and stay and work the junior varsity game.

If you're available in the afternoon, there is money to be made; basketball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, field hockey, rugby, and a few other sports.

Is that why fans are always yelling at me, "Don't quit your day job".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

All three of my children played scholastic soccer, and one played collegiate soccer. I can only remember attending two, or three, night games. For some reason, Connecticut high school soccer is played in the afternoon, usually on weekdays. Most people have to work for a living, and most work during the day.

Well here, they play many games at night. These games make very little revenue for either gender at the high school level. Same in small colleges as well. They even play soccer here on Friday nights and still not the focus that football or basketball gets. I have a good friend that is a soccer official and he makes it very clear it is nothing like football.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're having the same problem with our basketball officials. Middle school, and high school freshman, games are usually played in the afternoon (3:30 p.m., 4:00 p.m.). We just don't have enough available officials to cover those games. Some of those games only get one official. Many middle school officials work their middle school game, stay dressed, get in their car, and head to a nearby high school junior varsity game. Others work the freshman game and stay and work the junior varsity game.

If you're available in the afternoon, there is money to be made; basketball, soccer, volleyball, lacrosse, field hockey, rugby, and a few other sports.

Is that why fans are always yelling at me, "Don't quit your day job".

Since we are on the basketball site, basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue. More than enough to cover games at all levels. Now the quality of officials to cover many games might be an issue, but I am not sure that is bad either.

But those other sports are hurting big time to find people to cover games.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

These games make very little revenue for either gender at the high school level. Same in small colleges as well.

Agree.

I never paid to attend a regular season, or early round state tournament, scholastic, or collegiate, soccer game.

Football, and basketball, are the big high school revenue producers here in Connecticut.

[SheRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well here, they play many games at night. These games make very little revenue for either gender at the high school level. Same in small colleges as well. They even play soccer here on Friday nights and still not the focus that football or basketball gets. I have a good friend that is a soccer official and he makes it very clear it is nothing like football.



Since we are on the basketball site, basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue. More than enough to cover games at all levels. Now the quality of officials to cover many games might be an issue, but I am not sure that is bad either.

But those other sports are hurting big time to find people to cover games.

Peace

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SheRef

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

My state has over 5000 (Actually 4970 officials at this week is renewal week for the coming season) basketball officials licensed. We do not have a shortage anywhere to working high school sports in basketball. In other sports, yes. But not here. The only issue might be the quality in some places, but there are games being covered all over the place. Even when someone gets hurt or sick, the issue is not if someone can come and fill in, but who can fill in. And I also think because of the training that we do here as well, many officials can step in and fill in the games.

Peace

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by SheRef

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

In Connecticut, we have a shortage.

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[RefCT]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

In Connecticut, we have a shortage.

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I guess it depends on where you are. Being on Bd 8 or Bd 35, you may be short. I would argue that there isn't much of a shortage where I am, until the conferences and schools decide to schedule all their games the same night. This is especially the case when there is a cancellation (i.e. snow) and all the schools want to rebook to the next night, which already has a full slate of games. Our commissioner tells schools he literally has nobody available to officiate their games, unless they want a one man crew on a varsity game. None of the coaches/ADs are for that and then they decide to be flexible.

During the good winters with minimal disruptions, there are very few "all hands on deck" days.

[JRutledge]

Here is the additional fact. We do not play girls and boys basketball games in the same place as the norm. Often just in the Chicago area and surrounding suburbs, they play a Freshman A & B games (two games) in one gym and a Sophomore (usually the prelim game) before the varsity. So it is not unusual to have 7 officials assigned to one site on any given night. Then you might have 8 different sites or games going on in a particular conference. So that is if everyone one in the conference is playing (16 team model) then that means you have 56 officials assigned on any given night for just one gender of basketball. There are times when there are emergency fill-ins or last minute coverages of games, but they almost always get someone to fill those games even the day of the game. The schools might not get the best of the best every night working, but they get officials that can competently cover the games. And not all conferences are 16 teams. Many are 12 or fewer and I rarely hear of this being a problem to get officials in basketball. Also that means that you might even get some younger officials working levels they would not have worked in the past, but the games get covered.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I guess it depends on where you are.

In my little corner of Connecticut: 300 officials, 75 high schools, both genders (with very few exceptions), varsity, junior varsity, freshman, almost all two man crews; coaches, athletic directors, and principals don't like officials working doubleheaders if one of those games is a varsity game, unless absolutely necessary, many middle school programs (both genders). Boys and girls play on different nights, or at different sites (i.e. boys home, girls away, no such thing as a boys/girls doubleheader). Middle school, and freshman, games scheduled in the late afternoon (3:30 p.m., 4:00 p.m.), junior varsity (5:30 p.m.) and varsity (7:00 p.m.) at night. Not many Saturdays (except freshman games, and prep high school games), no Sundays. Very few schools with auxiliary gymnasiums that can seat fans.

We have a few dozen guys that don't work high school games (they just want the "patch" so that they can work their local town recreation, and travel games).

A few guys get hurt, a few guys get the flu, and it's tough to cover busy Fridays. Get a few games snowed out, and it get tough to have enough officials to cover the makeup nights.

Our new class has had about thirty officials the past few years, but that same number leaves for whatever reason (not moving up fast enough), or retires.

We've restructured out rating system so that deserving officials can move up quicker (no minimum years experience to move up, all one needs is talent). We may also start conducting exit interviews to see if we can make policy changes to keep officials from prematurely leaving.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... they said soccer was going to take over 20 years ago ...

And they said that the United States was going to go to the metric system. How did that turn out?

[SNIPERBBB]

A pro soccer player would be making "starvation" wages in compared to even the NHL if they werent the a star among stars. That probably keeps most players from continuing on. About 6-7 times less.