Ball off Face!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I agree that he has other primary responsibilities, but if you look at the first angle, it appears that this is a 2 man crew. The other 6 of the other 8 players are all below the free throw line, and it even appears that the trail is looking through the court and would have had some view of what just occurred.

Even if that is the case, it is still not something the Trail should be eyeballing that hard. He might have seen the ball contact the player, but did not see how measured the thrower was on hitting the opponent. So having him come in and making a call is kind of a stretch. The official standing right there administering the throw-in is really responsible for this call here.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even if that is the case, it is still not something the Trail should be eyeballing that hard. He might have seen the ball contact the player, but did not see how measured the thrower was on hitting the opponent. So having him come in and making a call is kind of a stretch. The official standing right there administering the throw-in is really responsible for this call here.

Peace

I am not advocating for the Trail to come in and make a call here. I'm just saying that if the trail caught any glimpse of what happened, and he knows his partner jacked this up, that he give the coach a little chance to speak his mind. I'm not saying that "anything goes" when the coach starts ranting, but there are times when something happens that gets blatantly missed, and if that's the case, within reasonable limits, let the coach say his piece, and then move on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I am not advocating for the Trail to come in and make a call here. I'm just saying that if the trail caught any glimpse of what happened, and he knows his partner jacked this up, that he give the coach a little chance to speak his mind. I'm not saying that "anything goes" when the coach starts ranting, but there are times when something happens that gets blatantly missed, and if that's the case, within reasonable limits, let the coach say his piece, and then move on.

He might have been surprised by what happened or did not know the entire story. And that does not give the coach the right to do whatever after that point of view. And if anything you are yelling at me when it was not my call or play to rule on. Just the fact he is yelling at me might be part of the reason he gets a T. If he does not know who to yell at, then that is not my problem. But he does not get a pass because he is saying something to me in a disrespectful way. Usually I give coaches a chance to change course, but if he doesn't, then so be it and get a T like any other time.

Peace

[deecee]

I have a flagrant foul here. I can see instances where a kid falling out of bounds may "hit" an opponents face and it be a no call, however this is completely unnecessary and white is done in my game.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

He might have been surprised by what happened or did not know the entire story. And that does not give the coach the right to do whatever after that point of view. And if anything you are yelling at me when it was not my call or play to rule on. Just the fact he is yelling at me might be part of the reason he gets a T. If he does not know who to yell at, then that is not my problem. But he does not get a pass because he is saying something to me in a disrespectful way. Usually I give coaches a chance to change course, but if he doesn't, then so be it and get a T like any other time.

Peace

Again, I'm not saying the coach gets a free pass. I just felt that in this situation, given what had just happened, it was an awfully quick trigger. You could tell the coach was upset, but he didn't seem to be yelling, or belligerent. I just think that given the situation, if the official that called the T had any idea of what had just happened, the coach deserved a little leeway.

Heck, since I wasn't there to hear exactly what was said, it's hard to say that I wouldn't have given him a T as well.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Again, I'm not saying the coach gets a free pass. I just felt that in this situation, given what had just happened, it was an awfully quick trigger. You could tell the coach was upset, but he didn't seem to be yelling, or belligerent. I just think that given the situation, if the official that called the T had any idea of what had just happened, the coach deserved a little leeway.

Heck, since I wasn't there to hear exactly what was said, it's hard to say that I wouldn't have given him a T as well.

I have said this before and I will say this again.

"When you roll the dice, you might just crap out." Well the coach crapped out and might have gotten a pass with a different official or situation. And unless you really know what was said, then we are speculating if things were to be different.

Peace

[HokiePaul]

My thoughts on this (which is definitely 2 man as the trail is opposite and mirroring the chop clock):

This is not as obvious call for the lead in real time. In 2 man especially, the focus is on the on-ball defender and thrower but you also have to watch other players nearby.

There is a offensive player making a cut around the free throw line who could theoretically be the intended target. Unless you are focused completely on the thrower (as we are when we watch the video), it would be hard to know whether this was intentional or accidental.

After watching the video, I'm 98% sure that the player threw the ball at the defender and I'd be confident to call an unsporting T. As the lead in 2-man, I'd probably be closer to 50/50 in the moment

If this happened to me, I would call the out of bounds and then go immediately to my partner to see whether or not he had an opinion e.g. "Ball hit the defender square in the face -- did you see anything to suggest that this the thrower did this intentionally?" or "Ball hit the defender square in the face -- I believe it was intentional by the thrower but wanted to check to see if you saw it differently before I issue a T".

Even if we don't call a T we show both coaches and the players that we are on notice for any more shenanigans.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I agree that he has other primary responsibilities, but if you look at the first angle, it appears that this is a 2 man crew. The other 6 of the other 8 players are all below the free throw line, and it even appears that the trail is looking through the court and would have had some view of what just occurred.

Sure ... but also, from that angle, he has no reason to believe this was anything other than a normal throw in that happened to hit the defender (albeit in the face). He can't imagine intent from there, he is very unlikely to see anything tech-worthy from there, especially in the light of his partner, on the spot, not calling one.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by deecee

I have a flagrant foul here. I can see instances where a kid falling out of bounds may "hit" an opponents face and it be a no call, however this is completely unnecessary and white is done in my game.

+1

I could easily go with a flagrant on this one.

[Adam]

I think it's either a technical foul for negligence (there is a cutter coming through at that moment, and the grassy knoll angle makes it impossible to tell if the thrower was staring at the defender or at the cutter), or a flagrant foul for intentionally throwing at the opponent's face.

Oh, and a flop.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Sure ... but also, from that angle, he has no reason to believe this was anything other than a normal throw in that happened to hit the defender (albeit in the face). He can't imagine intent from there, he is very unlikely to see anything tech-worthy from there, especially in the light of his partner, on the spot, not calling one.

This.

I'm not generally one to think a coach gets extra leeway because a call is missed. I rarely know a call is missed, and even when one was missed and can't be fixed, the coach still needs to act like an adult.

Maybe it's worth the T for the coach to make his point (his player could have been hurt by this), I could see that in this case if he thought it was intentional. That doesn't mean he gets to yell at me, though, without consequence.

[BillyMac]

Slightly of topic, one of our guys was accidentally hit in the head with a pass that went awry, got a concussion, and missed two weeks of games.

We sometimes forget that under certain circumstances, a thrown basketball can cause a serious injury.

[BigCat]

We can't tell who was looking at what. When I'm that close to the thrower I do have an eye there. Can't really say what all these guys looking at. None may have looked... Can't say what Coach said to zebra. If I was coach and saw the entire play I'd probably get tossed.

On film, This was flagrant and the kid should be tossed. For more than a game. He looks at kids head and throws it hard right at it. Walks off for ball with no remorse. Its a battery.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Walks off for ball with no remorse.

Rather striking, isn't it? He's gone.

[jpgc99]

But if the trail isn't looking there, how will he call a five second violation??