VCU / George Washington - Legal/Illegal Screen?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

What about the fact that he is screening a moving opponent and if you slow it down, the contact occurs on his first step after screen is set. I think its illegal.

A few random thoughts at 1133pm when i cant feel my right knee...

1. Im not a fan of the rule which says a player with foot on the line or OB doesn't have legal guarding position. I get the reasoning, but as i always say, its hard to get kids to stay in or move and accept contact. When they do, id prefer to reward that. Even if foot OB. In this play, i see that as the biggest issue. I dont like it, BUT, if you say a player cannot have lgp with foot OB not sure how you can say its ok for screener. True it isnt in screener rule but probably because it doesn't come up. Personally, i dont need an interp to say this is illegal. I would go with illegal cause make no sense to say its ok. If an interp tells me its ok then i would change.


2. My comments to johhny were over fact this wasnt a blind screen. The next issue after foot OB is a screen on a moving opponent so Bill, you are on track. I didnt look at it slowed down frame by frame because i dont referee that way. First glance i thought screener was there and defender shuffled once or twice. What i saw leads me to think he had time and distance to avoid contact.

3. Im fine with whatever the call was. Replay officials have it made. Its another world as we know on the court. If you create a situation where i have to make a choice, as here, you might not like my choice. I cant predict when i will screw up. I will do the best i can but if you winning or losing comes down to me and this last call you simply didnt play well enough. That's how i coached and what i believe.

This post was over the length limit so im throwing 10 bucks into the kitty...

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by BigCat

This post was over the length limit so im throwing 10 bucks into the kitty...

Use it for ice -- for his knee and his drink ... on the house

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The NFHS rule 4-40 does verbatim. Side and front is visual field. Behind is not within visual field. NCAAM doesn't say the words side or front but meaning is same. 4-34-3. Within visual field anywhere short of contact is fine. Outside of it one step.

I did look up "visual field." Merriam Webster says the visual field is determined by person looking straight ahead. Anything in the periphery is within visual field. If I look straight ahead I can still see to side. Now if I concentrate so much on what is directly in front of me I can't see anything to side. I'm Not using my peripheral vision. That does not mean that what is there, the screener in this play, is not within my visual field.

Finally, 4-21-4 of NCAAM rules say player screened within visual field expected to avoid contact. Fact that he doesn't have the ball doesn't matter.

I don't care what the NFHS rule says, I very rarely use that rule set and the play in question was an NCAA-M game. Also don't care what the dictionary says about vision field and you can say the screener was or should have been in defenders periphery vision, but that may or may not be true. Even if the defender is not concentrating on the inbounder, people have different levels of peripherial vision what one person sees many other people may not. For me it is simple, he is looking forward, the screener is completely on his side, outside his field of vision.

Whether the screener has the ball or not does in fact matter because I see this play as incidental contact. Read section 21, article 5. For you, it doesn't matter since you don't believe it to be incidental contact.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't care what the NFHS rule says, I very rarely use that rule set and the play in question was an NCAA-M game. Also don't care what the dictionary says about vision field and you can say the screener was or should have been in defenders periphery vision, but that may or may not be true. Even if the defender is not concentrating on the inbounder, people have different levels of peripherial vision what one person sees many other people may not. For me it is simple, he is looking forward, the screener is completely on his side, outside his field of vision.

Whether the screener has the ball or not does in fact matter because I see this play as incidental contact. Read section 21, article 5. For you, it doesn't matter since you don't believe it to be incidental contact.

I dont think its incidental because i dont believe it to be a screen set outside the visual field. I think 21-4 applies. I think what is and isnt within the visual field is a standard for all. Front or side is within. Anywhere behind or out of that field is not. We dont consider who sees better than others.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

We don't consider who sees better than others.

Maybe we should:



(I remember using one of these when I took a summer school drivers education class back in 1970.)

[bucky]

A ruling from Art Hyland (NCAA) was recently announced:

Screening Recently, there have been several questions regarding players setting screens with one foot out of bounds. Since this situation is not covered by the present rules, please see the Play Situation below. Play Situation: Team A is inbounding the ball after a made basket by Team B. A1 is attempting to inbound the ball along the end line and B1 is attempting to pressure the throw-in by standing near the end line in front of A1. A2 sets a screen 10 feet to the side of B1 with one foot on the end line and one foot inbounds. A1, while out of bounds, runs with the ball parallel to the end line while still out of bounds. B1 continues to pressure A1’s attempt to inbound the ball and moves with A1 without breaking the plane of the end line. B1 does not see the screen set by A2 and crashes into A2. Ruling: Even though A2 may have complied with all other screening rules, A2 should be charged with a personal foul because A2 had a foot on the end line and may not establish or maintain a legal screen while out of bounds. Rule 4-34 and 10-1.17. Note- Rule 4-17.1 also requires the defense to establish and maintain position inbounds on the playing court to be in legal guarding position.