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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 01:32pm
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Kansas @ Kansas State plays (Video)

Play #1:


Play #2:


Play #3:


Play #4:


Play #5:


Play #6:


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Last edited by JRutledge; Wed Feb 08, 2017 at 02:49pm.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 02:13pm
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plays

Plays 1 and 2; continuous upward motion.
Play 3. dead ball -after A/P got too players, kept cool, took their time to make the right call.
Play 4. Ball did not hit the line.
Play 5. Not in R/A!
Play 6. Not a kicked ball! No intent to kick.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 02:49pm
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1 and 2: I think both are continuous / upward motion. In each scenario dribbler has ended dribble and in my opinion started shooting process. At least the call is consistent on both ends.

3. I have no problem with how this held ball and aftermath was officiated

4. Clearly doesn't hit line - easy get with slow motion zoomed in replay - tough play in real time

5. Why do we think this an RA block? I think the lead just has a regular block, he never points at RA. As far as block / charge goes, I had to watch the slow motion replay 3 times to see if he was legal before offense left the court, if I have to do that, then I'm okay with the either call on the court.

6. Clearly missed kick ball call. The Lead official is completely straight lined on this call. Good lesson here to trust your partner, the C has a much better look from his angle, and he does not have a whistle.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 02:56pm
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Speculating of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale3 View Post

5. Why do we think this an RA block? I think the lead just has a regular block, he never points at RA. As far as block / charge goes, I had to watch the slow motion replay 3 times to see if he was legal before offense left the court, if I have to do that, then I'm okay with the either call on the court.
It appears he points to the RA as a way to suggest that is why he called the block. I do not think it was a block but that would have been the only reason to call one here. But this was the question of the person that brought this to my attention (after my game last night and recorded this on their phone.

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale3 View Post
3. I have no problem with how this held ball and aftermath was officiated
Something to consider..... If you are the closest official to a scrum, do not take your eyes off of the players until everyone is up safely. Talk to the players, "Good hustle", "Easy up", so they know an official is right there as they are getting up. Do not worry about the arrow, that is what your partners are for.

Looks like Lead took his eyes off of the players just long enough for something to get started, and he would have had no idea who did what.....
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 03:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
Something to consider..... If you are the closest official to a scrum, do not take your eyes off of the players until everyone is up safely. Talk to the players, "Good hustle", "Easy up", so they know an official is right there as they are getting up. Do not worry about the arrow, that is what your partners are for.

Looks like Lead took his eyes off of the players just long enough for something to get started, and he would have had no idea who did what.....
Even if he did as you suggest, at his level, he has video that will tell him all he needs to know.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 04:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Even if he did as you suggest, at his level, he has video that will tell him all he needs to know.
Just because you have video, doesn't mean you shouldn't do things the right way. Most of us don't have every game being taped, so my comments were mainly geared in that direction....
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 04:24pm
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#1: can live with foul prior to upward motion

#2: upward motion had begun

#3: nothing unusual here

#4: IC on OOB for Roger

#5: I have a PC foul

#6: I would hope I would leave this play for the Center if I'm the Lead
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 06:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
Just because you have video, doesn't mean you shouldn't do things the right way. Most of us don't have every game being taped, so my comments were mainly geared in that direction....
Cute, critiquing Higgins, who is perhaps the #1 rated mens basketball official in the country about doing things the right way.

As for the plays

1 & 2. In real time I'd say shooting, however in slo mo he got them right
3. Nothing wrong with the deal ball activity. The Kansas player over reacted
4. Not an OOB
5. I thought it was a PC from the get go
6. I don't think the foot struck the ball and the L would have an awful angle for that call
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 07:05pm
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Excuse my ignorance of NCAA rules (I use FIBA rules), but does there need to be "upward" movement for the act of shooting to begin? To me, #1 and 2 are clear shooting fouls.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 07:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
Excuse my ignorance of NCAA rules (I use FIBA rules), but does there need to be "upward" movement for the act of shooting to begin? To me, #1 and 2 are clear shooting fouls.
That is the interpretation for Men's basketball. I will tell you many of us try our best to make the upward motion as apart of our calls. But that does not mean we have a rule that clearly is often tough to call. I do not begrudge either call, they are tough to make on the fly. Easier for us to state this on replay IMO.

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 09:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That is the interpretation for Men's basketball. I will tell you many of us try our best to make the upward motion as apart of our calls. But that does not mean we have a rule that clearly is often tough to call. I do not begrudge either call, they are tough to make on the fly. Easier for us to state this on replay IMO.

Peace
Thanks Jeff. In FIBA, the rules states that the act of shooting often begins with upward movement but it is not necessary. It seems there are times when a player picks up his dribble to shoot that he is clearly in the act of shooting although he may not have actually started an upward movement.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 10:06pm
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On No. 5, are we sure he's indicating it's an RA block? I don't see him do it after he gives the block signal, and when it's a close-up of him, that motion he does with his hand seems more like he's telling the player "Line it up for free throws" than it is pointing to the arc.

I recall this play now. Just because the announcer said it was doesn't mean it was.
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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
On No. 5, are we sure he's indicating it's an RA block? I don't see him do it after he gives the block signal, and when it's a close-up of him, that motion he does with his hand seems more like he's telling the player "Line it up for free throws" than it is pointing to the arc.

I recall this play now. Just because the announcer said it was doesn't mean it was.
I was not basing it off the announcer. I am basing it off of what he said when the player approached him. He looked like he was telling the coach why he called the block.

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Old Wed Feb 08, 2017, 11:34pm
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Play #3.

Yes, I am a KU fan. But, Play #3 was not an Held Ball. This was a very good example of A1 gaining control of the ball while on the floor and then B1 and B2 jumping on A1 and/or B1 and B2 grabbing A1's arms. I am sorry I do not care what level play this is, both B1 and B2 committed a CF against A1. At no time was this ever a Held Ball.

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