Courtesy comment to coach

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Actually, central Ohio has a very good reputation for basketball officiating.

Some of you guys really like to latch onto something and drive it into the ground, while steering the conversation away from the point of the post or thread.

No need to be defensive. It relates to the point of unnecessary communication with coaches that can get you in trouble. If your assigner wants this done then so be it but I've seen an official give incorrect info- because the table was wrong- to a coach on how many timeouts he had. And the coach directed his anger toward the official instead of his assistants and the book who should have provided him the correct info. Why insert yourself when you don't need to? By rule we are to notify when they have zero and that's the only time I concern myself with it. I don't need their help to officiate and they don't need my help to coach.

As for the OP situation, I would not say that to a coach. The intention is good but no need for color commentary like that. In the past I have said something like #24 needs to clean his screens up but have found myself doing that less and less. There are certain times and situations where you can say things to coaches that work but you have to be careful and it's generally just not a good idea to initiate conversations like this with a coach. For the most part
The potential negatives far outweigh any positives you think will come out of it.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

No need to be defensive. It relates to the point of unnecessary communication with coaches that can get you in trouble. If your assigner wants this done then so be it but I've seen an official give incorrect info- because the table was wrong- to a coach on how many timeouts he had. And the coach directed his anger toward the official instead of his assistants and the book who should have provided him the correct info. Why insert yourself when you don't need to? By rule we are to notify when they have zero and that's the only time I concern myself with it. I don't need their help to officiate and they don't need my help to coach.

As for the OP situation, I would not say that to a coach. The intention is good but no need for color commentary like that. In the past I have said something like #24 needs to clean his screens up but have found myself doing that less and less. There are certain times and situations where you can say things to coaches that work but you have to be careful and it's generally just not a good idea to initiate conversations like this with a coach. For the most part
The potential negatives far outweigh any positives you think will come out of it.

I guess I should have added the "when in Rome" thing to that part of my post, or just used another example.

Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"

Like I said... if there's one less thing I have to worry about doing during a game, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. Heck, I don't like talking to coaches anyway, as it seems the majority of our conversations are unpleasant ones anyway. But until I'm told otherwise... *shrugs*

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I do get defensive.

It's a good thing for you that Jurassic Referee isn't around anymore. Some of his "criticisms" would have you curled up in a fetal position, crying, on the floor.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's a good thing for you that Jurassic Referee isn't around anymore. Some of his "criticisms" would have you curled up in a fetal position, crying, on the floor.

Phew!

Trust me, I'm working on that. My blood pressure used to rise whenever a coach questioned one of my calls, or got even a little argumentative. I've finally learned to keep calm when that happens.

It's one of the reasons I don't post here nearly as often as I used to. I mean, one, I'm not as knowledgeable as some of you, so I kind of stay out of the way. Secondly, there tends to be something in my posts that's not 100% correct, leading to a handful of people jumping all over it and taking the conversation away from the point.

While I know I'm not one of the best officials (I'm only in my 9th year), I think I'm pretty good at it. You know the saying... "you're not as good as you think, but not as bad as some others say you are."

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be to say, hey maybe they have a point.

At the end of the day you obviously go with what your assigner or other powers that be want. But the vast majority, at least from my experience and observation, don't train, require, or expect this.

And I only speak for myself, but I think multiple people are pointing out the folly of needlessly pointing out timeouts before zero as a tip for younger officials and others who do this, not because their assigner wants it done, but because they mistakenly think it's something they should be doing.

Like all advice, take it fwiw. But there's a reason there are multiple experienced officials offering the same advice here.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be to say, hey maybe they have a point.

At the end of the day you obviously go with what your assigner or other powers that be want. But the vast majority, at least from my experience and observation, don't train, require, or expect this.

And I only speak for myself, but I think multiple people are pointing out the folly of needlessly pointing out timeouts before zero as a tip for younger officials and others who do this, not because their assigner wants it done, but because they mistakenly think it's something they should be doing.

Like all advice, take it fwiw. But there's a reason there are multiple experienced officials offering the same advice here.

I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm just pointing out the reasons why I do this specific thing.

And I'm sticking up for those that trained me, and the central Ohio district as a whole, as I'm incredibly grateful for the way they've helped me get better year after year.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...
Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"
..

When 3 or more people jump in maybe it's an indication to re-examine the subject matter for a new perspective. I've changed my viewpoint on issues under such circumstances. Not because someone else criticized me and I fell in line, but because I went back at looked at the matter with new eyes and an open-mind. Defensiveness interferes with learning and growing.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When 3 or more people jump in maybe it's an indication to re-examine the subject matter for a new perspective. I've changed my viewpoint on issues under such circumstances. Not because someone else criticized me and I fell in line, but because I went back at looked at the matter with new eyes and an open-mind. Defensiveness interferes with learning and growing.

But it wasn't something I started doing because I thought I should. I followed what other officials, some of which I worked with and saw them do it, and others that have mentioned this "courtesy".

So whether I agree with doing it or not is meaningless. It's what is done around here. Now, I'll be more than happy to bring up the issues presented here to my association and assignors. But if that's what they want then that's what I'm going to do.

[BryanV21]

I just sent an email to my association rules interpreter. I will let you know what he says.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

But it wasn't something I started doing because I thought I should. I followed what other officials, some of which I worked with and saw them do it, and others that have mentioned this "courtesy".

So whether I agree with doing it or not is meaningless. It's what is done around here. Now, I'll be more than happy to bring up the issues presented here to my association and assignors. But if that's what they want then that's what I'm going to do.

There are a few officials in my area who do this. They also tend to be the ones who hunt down the ball after the game. One even likes to do post-game handshakes with the table. There are some very good officials who have carried on very bad habits over the years.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Adam

There are a few officials in my area who do this. They also tend to be the ones who hunt down the ball after the game. One even likes to do post-game handshakes with the table. There are some very good officials who have carried on very bad habits over the years.

Yeah, those are things I would not do. But I guess you're only as good as those that teach you. Looking forward to the answer I get from my question to the rules interpreter.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Yeah, those are things I would not do. But I guess you're only as good as those that teach you. Looking forward to the answer I get from my question to the rules interpreter.

I'm not saying they are bad officials. Some of the ones around here who do it are considered top-level officials. I take a lot from them, especially on how to deal with coaches.

[pfan1981]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

No need to be defensive. It relates to the point of unnecessary communication with coaches that can get you in trouble. If your assigner wants this done then so be it but I've seen an official give incorrect info- because the table was wrong- to a coach on how many timeouts he had. And the coach directed his anger toward the official instead of his assistants and the book who should have provided him the correct info. Why insert yourself when you don't need to? By rule we are to notify when they have zero and that's the only time I concern myself with it. I don't need their help to officiate and they don't need my help to coach.

As for the OP situation, I would not say that to a coach. The intention is good but no need for color commentary like that. In the past I have said something like #24 needs to clean his screens up but have found myself doing that less and less. There are certain times and situations where you can say things to coaches that work but you have to be careful and it's generally just not a good idea to initiate conversations like this with a coach. For the most part
The potential negatives far outweigh any positives you think will come out of it.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I will simply call fouls to communicate things across.