Courtesy comment to coach

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Some of you guys really like to latch onto something and drive it into the ground, while steering the conversation away from the point of the post or thread.

One thing that I've learned about basketball officiating from this Forum is the importance of the phrase "When in Rome". Things are done in different ways in different geographic areas.

For example, we've been taught to never say "On the floor", if we do it will show up in our ratings, but if an official from another geographic area tells me that it's acceptable for him to say "On the floor", then so be it.

If I were to sound my whistle before entering the court to let players know to stop dunking, my Connecticut colleagues would look me as if I were from Mars, but this is 100% correct in Texas.

Officials in Massachusetts stick around to observe the post-game handshake line. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, by that time we've already got the shower going to heat up the water.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Actually, central Ohio has a very good reputation for basketball officiating.

Some of you guys really like to latch onto something and drive it into the ground, while steering the conversation away from the point of the post or thread.

The point of the thread is unnecessary communication with coaches. The OP's situation was addressed, now your statement is up for debate. You are in the underwhelming minority on this one. And if I were working in Central Ohio I would still not be telling coaches how many time-outs they have left.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Actually, central Ohio has a very good reputation for basketball officiating.

Some of you guys really like to latch onto something and drive it into the ground, while steering the conversation away from the point of the post or thread.

No need to be defensive. It relates to the point of unnecessary communication with coaches that can get you in trouble. If your assigner wants this done then so be it but I've seen an official give incorrect info- because the table was wrong- to a coach on how many timeouts he had. And the coach directed his anger toward the official instead of his assistants and the book who should have provided him the correct info. Why insert yourself when you don't need to? By rule we are to notify when they have zero and that's the only time I concern myself with it. I don't need their help to officiate and they don't need my help to coach.

As for the OP situation, I would not say that to a coach. The intention is good but no need for color commentary like that. In the past I have said something like #24 needs to clean his screens up but have found myself doing that less and less. There are certain times and situations where you can say things to coaches that work but you have to be careful and it's generally just not a good idea to initiate conversations like this with a coach. For the most part
The potential negatives far outweigh any positives you think will come out of it.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The point of the thread is unnecessary communication with coaches. The OP's situation was addressed, now your statement is up for debate. You are in the underwhelming minority on this one. And if I were working in Central Ohio I would still not be telling coaches how many time-outs they have left.

And, honestly, you would probably not be "dinged" for not telling coaches the number of timeouts left.

It would be one less thing for me to do during a game. Hell, there's enough going on that I'd be perfectly okay with dropping this as part of my game. But it's what we do, and it's not so bad that I'm going to make a fuss over it.

By the way, unlike the person that posted this thread, I did not bring up the timeouts thing for discussion. But if you really want to go there, then fine. It's what's been taught to us. If you disagree with that, okay. But that's how we do it. Like Billy said, some places do things we disagree with. If you want to write to the assignors and associations about those things then feel free, but it would be nice if you'd back off those of us who are just doing what we're told.

You know... don't hate the player, hate the game.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

No need to be defensive. It relates to the point of unnecessary communication with coaches that can get you in trouble. If your assigner wants this done then so be it but I've seen an official give incorrect info- because the table was wrong- to a coach on how many timeouts he had. And the coach directed his anger toward the official instead of his assistants and the book who should have provided him the correct info. Why insert yourself when you don't need to? By rule we are to notify when they have zero and that's the only time I concern myself with it. I don't need their help to officiate and they don't need my help to coach.

As for the OP situation, I would not say that to a coach. The intention is good but no need for color commentary like that. In the past I have said something like #24 needs to clean his screens up but have found myself doing that less and less. There are certain times and situations where you can say things to coaches that work but you have to be careful and it's generally just not a good idea to initiate conversations like this with a coach. For the most part
The potential negatives far outweigh any positives you think will come out of it.

I guess I should have added the "when in Rome" thing to that part of my post, or just used another example.

Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"

Like I said... if there's one less thing I have to worry about doing during a game, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. Heck, I don't like talking to coaches anyway, as it seems the majority of our conversations are unpleasant ones anyway. But until I'm told otherwise... *shrugs*

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I do get defensive.

It's a good thing for you that Jurassic Referee isn't around anymore. Some of his "criticisms" would have you curled up in a fetal position, crying, on the floor.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's a good thing for you that Jurassic Referee isn't around anymore. Some of his "criticisms" would have you curled up in a fetal position, crying, on the floor.

Phew!

Trust me, I'm working on that. My blood pressure used to rise whenever a coach questioned one of my calls, or got even a little argumentative. I've finally learned to keep calm when that happens.

It's one of the reasons I don't post here nearly as often as I used to. I mean, one, I'm not as knowledgeable as some of you, so I kind of stay out of the way. Secondly, there tends to be something in my posts that's not 100% correct, leading to a handful of people jumping all over it and taking the conversation away from the point.

While I know I'm not one of the best officials (I'm only in my 9th year), I think I'm pretty good at it. You know the saying... "you're not as good as you think, but not as bad as some others say you are."

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be to say, hey maybe they have a point.

At the end of the day you obviously go with what your assigner or other powers that be want. But the vast majority, at least from my experience and observation, don't train, require, or expect this.

And I only speak for myself, but I think multiple people are pointing out the folly of needlessly pointing out timeouts before zero as a tip for younger officials and others who do this, not because their assigner wants it done, but because they mistakenly think it's something they should be doing.

Like all advice, take it fwiw. But there's a reason there are multiple experienced officials offering the same advice here.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be to say, hey maybe they have a point.

At the end of the day you obviously go with what your assigner or other powers that be want. But the vast majority, at least from my experience and observation, don't train, require, or expect this.

And I only speak for myself, but I think multiple people are pointing out the folly of needlessly pointing out timeouts before zero as a tip for younger officials and others who do this, not because their assigner wants it done, but because they mistakenly think it's something they should be doing.

Like all advice, take it fwiw. But there's a reason there are multiple experienced officials offering the same advice here.

I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm just pointing out the reasons why I do this specific thing.

And I'm sticking up for those that trained me, and the central Ohio district as a whole, as I'm incredibly grateful for the way they've helped me get better year after year.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Preventative officiating. It takes a few seconds to walk over and let them know. I'd rather do that than call a technical in a tight situation late in the game. At least one that can be avoided.

College game. Table tells officials each team has two left. Officials tell teams. Team calls TO. Table now says none left (table was wrong before). Big issue. LED to big discussions on whether to give the team an additional TO (becasue they acted on what the official told them), or just now tell them they are out, or what.

The books are clear -- tell the teams when they have none left. Not before.

[deecee]

The only time I "tell" a coach anything about a player is when their behavior is not up to par. It's a hint that either the coach has a chance at keeping a T off the books. Other than that I don't offer anything unless asked.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

And, honestly, you would probably not be "dinged" for not telling coaches the number of timeouts left.

It would be one less thing for me to do during a game. Hell, there's enough going on that I'd be perfectly okay with dropping this as part of my game. But it's what we do, and it's not so bad that I'm going to make a fuss over it.

By the way, unlike the person that posted this thread, I did not bring up the timeouts thing for discussion. But if you really want to go there, then fine. It's what's been taught to us. If you disagree with that, okay. But that's how we do it. Like Billy said, some places do things we disagree with. If you want to write to the assignors and associations about those things then feel free, but it would be nice if you'd back off those of us who are just doing what we're told.

You know... don't hate the player, hate the game.

"While I've worked at creating better rapports with coaches, I stick close by my rule of not talking to them unless it's to answer a question or if I have to (like "coach, you have one time out left"). I'm definitely not looking for reasons to speak with them."

You volunteered this statement unprompted. You then defended the practice as "preventive officiating". Sorry, but on a discussion board about officiating, you are going to get questioned. No one has attacked you, just your logic and the practice itself. Everyone who types something here takes that chance when they hit submit.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...
Yes, I do get defensive. Not so much when one or two people jump on the bash-wagon, but when it's three or more people I tend to take a step back and ask "WTF?"
..

When 3 or more people jump in maybe it's an indication to re-examine the subject matter for a new perspective. I've changed my viewpoint on issues under such circumstances. Not because someone else criticized me and I fell in line, but because I went back at looked at the matter with new eyes and an open-mind. Defensiveness interferes with learning and growing.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When 3 or more people jump in maybe it's an indication to re-examine the subject matter for a new perspective. I've changed my viewpoint on issues under such circumstances. Not because someone else criticized me and I fell in line, but because I went back at looked at the matter with new eyes and an open-mind. Defensiveness interferes with learning and growing.

But it wasn't something I started doing because I thought I should. I followed what other officials, some of which I worked with and saw them do it, and others that have mentioned this "courtesy".

So whether I agree with doing it or not is meaningless. It's what is done around here. Now, I'll be more than happy to bring up the issues presented here to my association and assignors. But if that's what they want then that's what I'm going to do.

[BryanV21]

I just sent an email to my association rules interpreter. I will let you know what he says.