Duke @ Notre Dame Plays (Video)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Sorry to have offended you. But my comment is based on the fact that in the last replay of the video the whistle doesn't blow until A1 is finishing down at the block. If that whistle is for a foul that happened two steps ago when he was turning the corner at the elbow, then yes, that is a late whistle. If you aren't going to let him play through it, and you aren't going to award shots, then why let him play through it and let him go up for a shot and get fouled again before you blow? I fully understand the concept of a patient whistle and to let the play happen, but isn't part of that seeing if the guy can play through a smaller foul to allow him to finish? It has always been my understanding that if you let him play through a small foul and then he gets fouled again going up for the shot you don't go back and say 'no shot' I have a hand check back here. This officials mechanics were very good, he clearly motioned that he had no shot, but that doesn't change the fact that he waited to long to blow if he was calling the hand check. And let's be honest, "waited too long" is a split second in this case.

And on 3, I wasn't clear what I meant, I understand that is T's call, but in this particular case the T was at a bad angle and was pretty deep, and he probably guessed there was a push, so he should just hold off on that call.

There is no such thing as waiting too long to blow. Clearly you don't understand that concept.

And on #3, I would categorize that as a hold moreso than a push.

Originally Posted by Rich

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LATE WHISTLE!

My God, I can't BELIEVE there are officials saying this. I expect it from clueless coaches, but not from officials who, supposedly, know better.

There is absolutely such a thing as a late whistle, in relation to whistle timing. If an official wants to call this handcheck play at the elbow he needs to be much quicker with his whistle timing. Remember, quick above the FT line and slow and patient below because we have plays to the basket (such as this one).

This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1.

Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There is absolutely such a thing as a late whistle, in relation to whistle timing. If an official wants to call this handcheck play at the elbow he needs to be much quicker with his whistle timing. Remember, quick above the FT line and slow and patient below because we have plays to the basket (such as this one).

This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1.

Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws.

On the flip side, don't look for reasons to award free throws either. Call it the way you see it. Eliminate any judgement when you can. If you are looking for reasons to do things then you are using too much judgement.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

3. No foul, but I'm sure it looked like one from the T's angle, but that is all the more reason he shouldn't make that call.

That's T's call all the way.

1. PC

2. Would have been continuous motion, but the player traveled. So, no basket, award two shots.

3. Hold on blue / black.

[Rich]

Is "whistle timing" new camp-speak?

Missed that one.

He's visible in the frame waving off the shot as the player finishes.

And 2 hands is an automatic - we don't pass on it just cause it has no effect on the play.

[Bob Bball]

Two hands is an "automatic"!

I just do not like this statement and philosophy. Contact happens in basketball: and, officials should judge what the contact does. if it alters what player is attempting to do make a call! If it does not play on!

In the open court above the foul line you can make a case for a hand check with this "limited contact"?

But, with offence closing on the defence, and the defence retreating below the foul line, the contact not changing what the offence was doing- leave it alone, make him a shooter!

The game is more fun when we let the athletes be athletes, and, do not get in their way because something is "automatic"

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

Two hands is an "automatic"!

I just do not like this statement and philosophy. Contact happens in basketball: and, officials should judge what the contact does. if it alters what player is attempting to do make a call! If it does not play on!

In the open court above the foul line you can make a case for a hand check with this "limited contact"?

But, with offence closing on the defence, and the defence retreating below the foul line, the contact not changing what the offence was doing- leave it alone, make him a shooter!

The game is more fun when we let the athletes be athletes, and, do not get in their way because something is "automatic"

Time warp. They tried your way. Gave us the Knicks. Ugly basketball. Fact is automatics are needed because referees can't tell what contact affects offense and what doesn't. U put your hand on my hip, i assure you it is bothering me. But, I'm not going to flop around and exaggerate it. No one in the gym will know but me.

There's no legitimate reason for a kid's hand to be on a dribbler....it's done to slow them or bother them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

Two hands is an "automatic"!

I just do not like this statement and philosophy. Contact happens in basketball: and, officials should judge what the contact does. if it alters what player is attempting to do make a call! If it does not play on!

In the open court above the foul line you can make a case for a hand check with this "limited contact"?

But, with offence closing on the defence, and the defence retreating below the foul line, the contact not changing what the offence was doing- leave it alone, make him a shooter!

The game is more fun when we let the athletes be athletes, and, do not get in their way because something is "automatic"

Well here is the rule.

10-1-4:

Art. 4. The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a player
with the ball:
a. Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent;
b. Putting two hands on an opponent.
c. Continually jabbing an opponent by extending an arm(s) and placing a
hand or forearm on the opponent;
d. Using an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

Two hands is an "automatic"!

Yes. Along with extended arm-bar, one hand that stays on (other than a "hot stove" touch), alternate hands, the same hand more than once. By rule. The "tower philosophy" does NOT apply to these plays.

I just do not like this statement and philosophy. Contact happens in basketball: and, officials should judge what the contact does. if it alters what player is attempting to do make a call! If it does not play on!

In the open court above the foul line you can make a case for a hand check with this "limited contact"?

But, with offence closing on the defence, and the defence retreating below the foul line, the contact not changing what the offence was doing- leave it alone, make him a shooter!

The game is more fun when we let the athletes be athletes, and, do not get in their way because something is "automatic"

Thank you for being a fan of college basketball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

Is "whistle timing" new camp-speak?

Missed that one.

He's visible in the frame waving off the shot as the player finishes.

And 2 hands is an automatic - we don't pass on it just cause it has no effect on the play.

"Immediate whistles on the perimeter shots, patient whistles on drives to the basket" as a general guideline.

I would venture to say this official reviewed the video and wishes he would have counted this basket. Yes, he waved it off immediately upon blowing the whistle, but that contact occurred as part of the shooting motion.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

"Immediate whistles on the perimeter shots, patient whistles on drives to the basket" as a general guideline.

I would venture to say this official reviewed the video and wishes he would have counted this basket. Yes, he waved it off immediately upon blowing the whistle, but that contact occurred as part of the shooting motion.

I thought that originally but if you look at the first 8 seconds I think u can see he was calling foul before any shooting motion. I think he called a foul when he saw it.

[Rich]

The rules makers have decided what are automatics, not me.

[Rich]

Didn't this guy say he was an observer?

Just what's needed....ANOTHER observer who doesn't know or doesn't care about the rules.