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-   -   T Worthy? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102155-t-worthy.html)

Nevadaref Wed Jan 25, 2017 09:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 998293)
Over the last 2 years I have adopted a more "honest" approach to coaches and I like this line. I had an awful game this past Friday that had about 40 or so fouls.

At some point in the third quarter the HC and one of his assistants said, after a foul, that I was calling a lot and to "let them play". I responded with a very sarcastic line "It was my plan when I left my family at 6PM to blow my whistle this much and officiate such a sloppily played game." I said this while looking at them both.

Would I recommend this line to other officials probably not. But shortly after that the HC complained, again, about a call in a game in which he team was up 40. I told him flat out that I'm done with him and my patience are gone for the remainder of the game. 2 minutes later I have a block charge call that goes against him 80 feet away, he yells something across the court for lowering the shoulder, I T move one, game ends like 4 hours later.

Out of curiosity do others on here get so fed up with a game, like a huge sloppy blowout that you remove all rope for the winning team and their complaining?
You need to make a serious attitude adjustment. If you aren't enjoying officiating and wish to spend more time with your family, then block more dates or turn down more assignments. What you shouldn't do is behave in such a poor manner towards the coaches and/or the players. Your conduct was unprofessional and reflects poorly on all officials.
Keep it to the simple, "Coach, that's enough" and "Coach, no more." If it continues, simply whistle and T.

Gutierrez7 Wed Jan 25, 2017 09:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 998284)
We had a coach like this last night. He was always faster than us on the call and of course would call out whether he was right or not. Not loud enough where anyone but the tableside official could hear. I really didn't care and it didn't affect anything.

But I have a line for a coach who thinks he's better than us cause we're slow:

"I know you're faster, coach, but we actually have to be right."
That,s a great line Rich to have in your inventory of comments. I will plan to use it myself.

deecee Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 998464)
You need to make a serious attitude adjustment. If you aren't enjoying officiating and wish to spend more time with your family, then block more dates or turn down more assignments. What you shouldn't do is behave in such a poor manner towards the coaches and/or the players. Your conduct was unprofessional and reflects poorly on all officials.
Keep it to the simple, "Coach, that's enough" and "Coach, no more." If it continues, simply whistle and T.
I usually agree with this sentiment. Why do coaches get free passes for their behavior?

Welpe Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 998513)
Why do coaches get free passes for their behavior?
We're supposed to be the unemotional arbiters of the game. Just the way it is.

deecee Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 998525)
We're supposed to be the unemotional arbiters of the game. Just the way it is.
Stating a fact that a game is sloppy isn't emotional.

Moosie74 Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 998284)
We had a coach like this last night. He was always faster than us on the call and of course would call out whether he was right or not. Not loud enough where anyone but the tableside official could hear. I really didn't care and it didn't affect anything.

But I have a line for a coach who thinks he's better than us cause we're slow:

"I know you're faster, coach, but we actually have to be right."
I had a coach sputterting the other night in that second between violation and whistle. I simply said I'll get the call, I want to be right first.

He looked at me and said thanks, never thought of it that way.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Welpe Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 998527)
Stating a fact that a game is sloppy isn't emotional.
You're missing the point. We are held to a higher standard of comportment because we are supposed to be the unemotional arbiters of the game. It's generally more acceptable for some coaches to act the way they do because they have an emotional investment in the outcome.

That doesn't make it right but it's true.

JRutledge Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:53pm
"If you keep yelling at me about what I am supposed to do, then you will not be able to stand very long" then walk away. Problem solved or just give the T if you have dealt with the coach earlier.

Usually they get the message. I do not pussy foot with coaches. You want to be big and bad, I can be worse. And I will win in the end.

Peace

Welpe Wed Jan 25, 2017 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 998539)
"If you keep yelling at me about what I am supposed to do, then you will not be able to stand very long" then walk away.
Threatening to break their knee caps would work I suppose. :eek:

I kid, I know what you mean and I use a similar warning. It works.

deecee Wed Jan 25, 2017 02:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 998537)
You're missing the point. We are held to a higher standard of comportment because we are supposed to be the unemotional arbiters of the game. It's generally more acceptable for some coaches to act the way they do because they have an emotional investment in the outcome.

That doesn't make it right but it's true.
I've been doing this 15 years. I get the point. I'm over the point. There are times where toeing the company line doesn't get anything resolved. Would I recommend sarcastic responses to newer officials? No. But after a while enough is enough and I'm ok with NOT going to "rulebook" responses. Part of the art is how do you handle responses when you stray off course. That's where experience kicks in. Hopefully.

And saying we don't have an emotional investment is balderdash. We are human. Sometimes we get angry, happy, sad, and we may try our best to keep these "out" but that's unrealistic. First you have to accept them in before you can deal with your reactions. None more true than an ahole coach that crosses the line and gets T'd up. Say what you want but there are times where I get pissed after the T because they were complete jerks. A very small percentage of people in life NEVER have emotion. They are usually sociopaths. I don't think I'm one of them.

JRutledge Wed Jan 25, 2017 02:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 998542)
Threatening to break their knee caps would work I suppose. :eek:

I kid, I know what you mean and I use a similar warning. It works.
I have never been an advocate for not basically threatening a coach or player. Bottom line is that you have to make it real for them. If they want to continue, remind them of what is going to happen. If they do not like it, I probably passed many schools to get to this game. I do not need their temper tantrums to do my job. Works for me and I do not have to give a T. Almost never had an additional problem and usually have coaches apologize and then go back to coaching.

When you tell them what can happen that is a "threat." I see nothing wrong with doing that when you are threatening them with what is going to be the result of their actions (like a T or playing time for a kid) then usually the get you. But you do all this other negotiating and then they try to make it about you. We need to focus on their behavior and what the behavior brings. I am a man, I am not going to be treated any thing but as I would treat them. If you want to act like a child, then you will be treated as such.

Peace

JRutledge Wed Jan 25, 2017 02:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 998545)
I've been doing this 15 years. I get the point. I'm over the point. There are times where toeing the company line doesn't get anything resolved. Would I recommend sarcastic responses to newer officials? No. But after a while enough is enough and I'm ok with NOT going to "rulebook" responses. Part of the art is how do you handle responses when you stray off course. That's where experience kicks in. Hopefully.

And saying we don't have an emotional investment is balderdash. We are human. Sometimes we get angry, happy, sad, and we may try our best to keep these "out" but that's unrealistic. First you have to accept them in before you can deal with your reactions. None more true than an ahole coach that crosses the line and gets T'd up. Say what you want but there are times where I get pissed after the T because they were complete jerks. A very small percentage of people in life NEVER have emotion. They are usually sociopaths. I don't think I'm one of them.
And I advocate that we do what works for us in our personality. If you are sarcastic and that comes natural to you, then you can use sarcasm. If you are a hardazz, then be a hardazz when you feel it is necessary. Most of the time we never have to get in the chest of a coach at all. Many are reasonable and will talk to you directly and calmly. But when they don't, sometimes we have to basically get to the basics of human interaction.

Peace

Welpe Wed Jan 25, 2017 02:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 998545)
I've been doing this 15 years. I get the point. I'm over the point. There are times where toeing the company line doesn't get anything resolved. Would I recommend sarcastic responses to newer officials? No. But after a while enough is enough and I'm ok with NOT going to "rulebook" responses. Part of the art is how do you handle responses when you stray off course. That's where experience kicks in. Hopefully.

And saying we don't have an emotional investment is balderdash. We are human. Sometimes we get angry, happy, sad, and we may try our best to keep these "out" but that's unrealistic. First you have to accept them in before you can deal with your reactions. None more true than an ahole coach that crosses the line and gets T'd up. Say what you want but there are times where I get pissed after the T because they were complete jerks. A very small percentage of people in life NEVER have emotion. They are usually sociopaths. I don't think I'm one of them.
You asked the question, I'm just explaining why it is.

As a great philosopher once said, “They Don’t Think It Be Like It Is, But It Do”.

deecee Wed Jan 25, 2017 02:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 998558)
You asked the question, I'm just explaining why it is.
Oh I made a statement after a rhetorical question. I know the answer to "Why do coaches get free passes for their behavior?" It's because to many officials are either scared of T's because they are bad, or don't do a good job in dealing with conflict.

Raymond Wed Jan 25, 2017 03:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 998275)
I have learned that a complaining coach usually gets a warning first, but personal attacks on your integrity can merit an immediate T.

Freshman Girls, 4:00, few fans. First minute, B1 holding the ball over her head in the FC, directly in front of Coach A. A1 reaches for the ball, and gradually contacts the arms of B1, and eventually displaces her. This took a few seconds. The problem was, just before I whistle for the foul, Coach B says "That's a foul!".
Coach A immediately says to me, softly, "You weren't going to call that until he said something. I need you to call your own game".

Caught me off-guard, I just replied "That had nothing to do with it".

T?
My standard and immediate and direct response to the bolded statement is "I don't need your help". HCs, assistants, bench personnel. I look directly at them when I say it.

My response to the blue statement is something to the effect of "do not insult my integrity".


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