Ejected From Tournament (Video)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Yes, absolutely. More 3-3-8 than 3-3-6, I would heavily emphasize player safety in this case.

Please tell me what signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion the fouled player is exhibiting?
She quickly gets up on her own and walks over near her team bench.
I think that an official would be overstepping his authority as well as misapplying a rule to require that this player leave the game under 3-3-8.
3-3-6 is clear and obvious when the coach comes out onto the court. Just enforce what's clear. No need to reach here.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Please tell me what signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion the fouled player is exhibiting?
She quickly gets up on her own and walks over near her team bench.
I think that an official would be overstepping his authority as well as misapplying a rule to require that this player leave the game under 3-3-8.
3-3-6 is clear and obvious when the coach comes out onto the court. Just enforce what's clear. No need to reach here.

I agree with this.

[frezer11]

I don't believe it applies in this video, but had the coach immediately came off his bench and moved toward his player, I think there is an argument that he legally came on to the court to prevent or break up a fight, as fights will often times start following a flagrant foul. In that case, I would at least consider allowing that player to stay in the game. In the video, we can't actually see the coach's initial reaction, as he is off-camera. Had he immediately stood up and moved on to the court, and then walked out the last 2-3 steps once he realized there was no fight imminent, I might have even considered it here.

[so cal lurker]

Last summer, soccer made a rule change that if a player is injured by a foul that results in a yellow or red card, the player can be treated without having to leave the field. To me, that would make sense as a BB rule for a player that is a victim of a flagrant foul.

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Last summer, soccer made a rule change that if a player is injured by a foul that results in a yellow or red card, the player can be treated without having to leave the field. To me, that would make sense as a BB rule for a player that is a victim of a flagrant foul.

They should absolutely implement this rule.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Please tell me what signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion the fouled player is exhibiting?
She quickly gets up on her own and walks over near her team bench.
I think that an official would be overstepping his authority as well as misapplying a rule to require that this player leave the game under 3-3-8.
3-3-6 is clear and obvious when the coach comes out onto the court. Just enforce what's clear. No need to reach here.

Actually, the concussion protocol varies from state to state. The OhioHSAA protocol is completely different from the MichiganHSAA protocol.

The MichiganHSAA protocol just calls for an official to have a trainer look at the player if the official thinks that the player has suffered a concussion and that is the limit of the officials involvement.

The OhioHSAA protocol says that an official who thinks a player has concussion like symptoms to have the player removed from the game immediately and once the decision makes that decision, that player cannot return to competition for the remainder of the day. The official also has a special form to complete and submit to the OhioHSAA.

It should be noted that the State of Ohio has a law that has been in effect for almost four years that requires anyone that officiates youth sports of any to have completed at least once every three years the NFHS or CDC online concussion course. That means that part of the OhioHSAA annual registration process requires the official to provide a copy of his valid NFHS or CDC certificate. The OhioHSAA keeps track of each officials certificate and if it expires during the school year and if an official's certificate expires during the school year and he does not provide the OhioHSAA with an up to date certificate he is automatically suspended and all officiating contracts are immediately null and void. The law also requires any out of state officials who come into Ohio to officiate/umpire youth tournaments during the summer must have a valid NFHS or CDC concussion certificate.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Actually, the concussion protocol varies from state to state. The OhioHSAA protocol is completely different from the MichiganHSAA protocol.

The MichiganHSAA protocol just calls for an official to have a trainer look at the player if the official thinks that the player has suffered a concussion and that is the limit of the officials involvement.

The OhioHSAA protocol says that an official who thinks a player has concussion like symptoms to have the player removed from the game immediately and once the decision makes that decision, that player cannot return to competition for the remainder of the day. The official also has a special form to complete and submit to the OhioHSAA.

It should be noted that the State of Ohio has a law that has been in effect for almost four years that requires anyone that officiates youth sports of any to have completed at least once every three years the NFHS or CDC online concussion course. That means that part of the OhioHSAA annual registration process requires the official to provide a copy of his valid NFHS or CDC certificate. The OhioHSAA keeps track of each officials certificate and if it expires during the school year and if an official's certificate expires during the school year and he does not provide the OhioHSAA with an up to date certificate he is automatically suspended and all officiating contracts are immediately null and void. The law also requires any out of state officials who come into Ohio to officiate/umpire youth tournaments during the summer must have a valid NFHS or CDC concussion certificate.

MTD, Sr.

1. That's the most insane law ever (ok, maybe it's tied). Expecting officials to be experts on concussions based on an online class is just stupid.

2. Both states may have different protocols, but they both still start at the same point: when the official think the player may have a concussion. In the OP video, there's nothing to indicate that. She didn't hit a hard unprotected wall, she hit the mat. Her hands cushioned the impact. She got right up.

She's still heading to the bench without a timeout.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. That's the most insane law ever (ok, maybe it's tied). Expecting officials to be experts on concussions based on an online class is just stupid.

2. Both states may have different protocols, but they both still start at the same point: when the official think the player may have a concussion. In the OP video, there's nothing to indicate that. She didn't hit a hard unprotected wall, she hit the mat. Her hands cushioned the impact. She got right up.

She's still heading to the bench without a timeout.

I don't think its a bad law. It isn't trying to make anyone experts. They just are taking concussions a lot more seriously than ever before. With good reason. We have an online class/test here. It just describes symptoms, talks about what to look for and explains seriousness. It isn't trying to make us a treater. Just have some idea what to look for. Provides information to us they that want us to have..

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I don't think its a bad law. It isn't trying to make anyone experts. They just are taking concussions a lot more seriously than ever before. With good reason. We have an online class/test here. It just describes symptoms, talks about what to look for and explains seriousness. It isn't trying to make us a treater. Just have some idea what to look for. Provides information to us they that want us to have..

Until one of you "misdiagnoses" a concussion and is named in a lawsuit with a line of questioning like: "Did you or did you not watch the online video?"

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Hawkeyes

Until one of you "misdiagnoses" a concussion and is named in a lawsuit with a line of questioning like: "Did you or did you not watch the online video?"

We're not asked to diagnose anything. Pretty simple here--if a kid has an event and /or he looks the least bit "off" send him out. School must then have him evaluated by certified trainer. If in doubt send them out. Easy.

Referees aren't getting sued every day and when we are we aren't losing. Law actually favors officials in liability area.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

We're not asked to diagnose anything. Pretty simple here--if a kid has an event and /or he looks the least bit "off" send him out. School must then have him evaluated by certified trainer. If in doubt send them out. Easy.

Referees aren't getting sued every day and when we are we aren't losing. Law actually favors officials in liability area.

Let me rephrase my Iowa friend: Until someone misses a concussion and is held responsible because he was, after all, trained to recognize (not treat, but recognize) a concussion and have a player removed from play.

Or, we go ahead and send a player to the bench and get sued for affecting the game because it was the best player and a neurosurgeon showed up and said there was never a concussion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. That's the most insane law ever (ok, maybe it's tied). Expecting officials to be experts on concussions based on an online class is just stupid.

2. Both states may have different protocols, but they both still start at the same point: when the official think the player may have a concussion. In the OP video, there's nothing to indicate that. She didn't hit a hard unprotected wall, she hit the mat. Her hands cushioned the impact. She got right up.

She's still heading to the bench without a timeout.

Speaking from the perspective of an Ohio official. The law requiring the Concussion Certificate is not a bad one, because it also applies to all coaches both JrHS/HS and youth. When I am umpiring an ASA (now USA Softball) tournament in Ohio in the summer the law means that the coaches as well as the umpires are put on notice that we all are to put the safety of the player before anything else. The irony of the law is that there is now penalty for officiating/umpiring without the certificate. Only the OhioHSAA takes action against officials that do not have the certificate, and the OhioHSAA gives the officials to take action if they think that the player MAY be exhibiting concussion like symptoms.

MTD, Sr.