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[deecee]

I won't do this for less than $60-$70 a game to be honest. I only work varsity and am at the point where I am happy working about 20 decent-good games a year. I have a young family, full time job, and side business (as well as my wife runs a business which means some things there fall on me too).

I have no interest anymore for games below the varsity level. I don't want to deal with those coaches, who to often are let run free by regular JV guys, and I have not interest in wanting to officiate games that "don't count".

This is a hobby, that once it gets to the point where I am not having fun I quit. Truthfully I'm almost at the point where I may be okay with 10-15 good games. I treat this for what it is to me until it isn't anymore. I enjoy officiating. I don't enjoy officiating to the point where it may feel like a job.

In the end the money isn't the reason to the guys that care and that are good. The money is the reason to the guys that want to do as many games as humanly possible. It all depends what stage of life you are in. The big challenge of getting younger folks into officiating is (1) a$$hole coaches and veterans not addressing the issue (2) stupid rating and classification structures (3) officials thinking they are better than they are.

I started officiating college last year, and it's fun. But I'm at the point where this is probably my ceiling and I have to decide if the effort for college is worth it. Realistically, it probably isn't.

I have also found that the officials that do get state games, etc. are usually not very outspoken and go with the flow without causing ripples. I'm just not that guy, and I accept it's shortcomings.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

I won't do this for less than $60-$70 a game to be honest. I only work varsity and am at the point where I am happy working about 20 decent-good games a year. I have a young family, full time job, and side business (as well as my wife runs a business which means some things there fall on me too).

I have no interest anymore for games below the varsity level. I don't want to deal with those coaches, who to often are let run free by regular JV guys, and I have not interest in wanting to officiate games that "don't count".

This is a hobby, that once it gets to the point where I am not having fun I quit. Truthfully I'm almost at the point where I may be okay with 10-15 good games. I treat this for what it is to me until it isn't anymore. I enjoy officiating. I don't enjoy officiating to the point where it may feel like a job.

In the end the money isn't the reason to the guys that care and that are good. The money is the reason to the guys that want to do as many games as humanly possible. It all depends what stage of life you are in. The big challenge of getting younger folks into officiating is (1) a$$hole coaches and veterans not addressing the issue (2) stupid rating and classification structures (3) officials thinking they are better than they are.

I started officiating college last year, and it's fun. But I'm at the point where this is probably my ceiling and I have to decide if the effort for college is worth it. Realistically, it probably isn't.

I have also found that the officials that do get state games, etc. are usually not very outspoken and go with the flow without causing ripples. I'm just not that guy, and I accept it's shortcomings.

I respect all of that.

I am still one of the 50-60 games a year people --I don't care much about the level of pay except that I feel I owe it to others to be an advocate for better pay and working conditions. The difference between $50 and $80 isn't going to improve my life.

I am at my ceiling -- I work HS games and a handful of junior college games and that's it. But my kid will be in HS in 3 years and I expect things to slow. I'm also 30 years in and without a move to 3-person I probably would've retired before I hit 50. Not cause I can't work 2, but because the game has moved past officials calling a really good game that way, especially in fast, physical games, and I wasn't having a lot of fun the last few years we worked 2.

[robbie]

Does the audience realize that if one buys a Lincoln one does not become Matthew McConaughey?

[zakman2005000]

snip..[QUOTE=crosscountry55;997816]

2. I had a D1 Boys Varsity game last night with a full gym, a somewhat hostile crowd, an ignoramus coach and two player technicals for dumb stuff. For my 3 hours of active fight prevention efforts I received.....$50.

Let me preface this comment as a remote northern WI official that I don't really care about the pay, but this is insane. I haven't worked a three man game in the past three years for less than $80. Yes, we don't get mileage, but a review of my schedule shows that 3/4 of my games are within 40 miles one way with the longest trip being 75 miles. You can do the math on the mileage reimbursements split 3 ways.

Fortunately for us, our conference assigners have been very proactive and have found the school administrators to be receptive to the fee schedule. I guess the takeaways are twofold:

1. At least for me, the fee increase in exchange for mileage reimbursement has worked out pretty well. The inference that were getting the short end of the stick by forgoing mileage just isn't accurate.

2. Were very fortunate up here as the laws of supply and demand appear to be on our side, as I've heard that one conference up this way will actually be going to $90/game next year.

My sincerest hopes that you guys get some pay increases going forward.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by zakman2005000

Let me preface this comment as a remote northern WI official that I don't really care about the pay, but this is insane. I haven't worked a three man game in the past three years for less than $80. Yes, we don't get mileage, but a review of my schedule shows that 3/4 of my games are within 40 miles one way with the longest trip being 75 miles. You can do the math on the mileage reimbursements split 3 ways.

Fortunately for us, our conference assigners have been very proactive and have found the school administrators to be receptive to the fee schedule. I guess the takeaways are twofold:

1. At least for me, the fee increase in exchange for mileage reimbursement has worked out pretty well. The inference that were getting the short end of the stick by forgoing mileage just isn't accurate.

2. Were very fortunate up here as the laws of supply and demand appear to be on our side, as I've heard that one conference up this way will actually be going to $90/game next year.

My sincerest hopes that you guys get some pay increases going forward.

Fascinating. I worked for a year in Kansas and the statewide spread was $70-$85, all for three-person (70 or 75 urban, 85 in the rural west). In Wisconsin, similar setup, but the spread is over twice as large ($50-$85). Sheesh.

So the budget "issues" that Rich alludes to don't seem to be an issue up north; the fees are higher despite a lower per capita income and, presumably, similar admissions prices at the gate. However, in said rural northern areas, do many schools not have frosh and JV teams? If so, that would be a lot less money to spend on officials on any given Tuesday or Friday night, making it easier to stomach the higher varsity fees. Out of curiosity, for those schools who do have frosh/JV teams, what is the 2-person fee range for those games?

[Rich]

You say "issues" like school are just making stuff up.

I have few schools playing JV2 or FR. Some don't have JV teams. Many of the MKE schools have 4 levels.

I'm not for a second excusing the low pay. But don't think there isn't an issue cause more rural districts do it.

Further, why shouldn't supply and demand not be part of the decision on what to pay people? Till we're all willing to take time off and send a message, what incentive besides good faith do conferences have to fix things?

I've been on the commish side for 3 years. 3-person was brought forward and approved in my first meeting (me along with the outgoing commish) for last season. So schools already increased their spend at the V level by 50% last season as we held the pay at the same level ($60). Expecting schools to then increase again immediately is a tough sell, however we only spent 2 years at $60 and will go to $65 next year with plans to be at $70 within 5 years.

With the state not setting rates, it's a lot more complicated than people think.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

You say "issues" like school are just making stuff up.

I have few schools playing JV2 or FR. Some don't have JV teams. Many of the MKE schools have 4 levels.

I'm not for a second excusing the low pay. But don't think there isn't an issue cause more rural districts do it.

Further, why shouldn't supply and demand not be part of the decision on what to pay people? Till we're all willing to take time off and send a message, what incentive besides good faith do conferences have to fix things?

I've been on the commish side for 3 years. 3-person was brought forward and approved in my first meeting (me along with the outgoing commish) for last season. So schools already increased their spend at the V level by 50% last season as we held the pay at the same level ($60). Expecting schools to then increase again immediately is a tough sell, however we only spent 2 years at $60 and will go to $65 next year with plans to be at $70 within 5 years.

With the state not setting rates, it's a lot more complicated than people think.

There's a lot couched in here, all respectable. I don't mean to be ignorant of the schools' plight. But I do think their budget plight is more perceived and ingrained then anything. It is solvable. Other states, many without state office rate-setting involvement, have solved this. We're just behind, I guess. Sounds like WA and SC are behind with us (actually a little worse).

I highlighted the red sentence for a reason. I think we may be on the verge of a breaking point already. I don't foresee many officials unionizing to force change, but I do see the supply of officials starting to get tapped out in the Milwaukee area. Last Monday an assignor posted an opening for a 5:30 JV girls game on Friday (original official had bugged out, presumably for a varsity game somewhere else). He sent the email again on Wednesday, and again on Thursday. No takers. On a busy Friday night there just aren't that many folks available. The game magically got filled at the last minute, but I'm sure it took begging and pleading by the assignor. I'm thinking....maybe if the assignor had just told the school, "Sorry, I've got no one available for your $40 JV game; you'll have to cancel the game," a message would have been sent. If that were to start to happen routinely, the assignor could tell the conference ADs, "Look, I'm trying to get the games filled, but you're just NOT making the fees attractive enough to new and veteran officials alike; consider $50 for JV and $70 for varsity and you'll attract new talent to the avocation and encourage upward desire. Meanwhile we'll be more encouraged to get involved in training and development in exchange for the pay increase."

Of course they'd fire the assignor, but you can only ignore the problem for so long. Eventually the chickens come home to roost.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I think we may be on the verge of a breaking point already ... I do see the supply of officials starting to get tapped out in the Milwaukee area. Last Monday an assignor posted an opening for a 5:30 JV girls game on Friday .. He sent the email again on Wednesday, and again on Thursday ... On a busy Friday night there just aren't that many folks available ...

We're having similar problems here. We have about 250 officials covering about 75 high schools (most with boys, girls, freshman, junior varsity, varsity) as well as many middle schools. No competition here, IAABO is the only kid on the block for high school basketball. Even with subvarsity officials working freshman/junior varsity doubleheaders, if a couple of guys get injured, or sick, or decide to take a three day ski weekend up north, we're having trouble covering really busy nights, usually Fridays. Sometimes we have to assign varsity officials to junior varsity/varsity doubleheaders, something that is greatly frowned upon by athletic directors, and varsity coaches, who want fresh officials for their varsity games. Game fees for 2016/2017: varsity fee: $94.63, subvarsity fee: $61.39, almost all two person games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We're having similar problems here. We have about 250 officials covering about 75 high schools (most with boys, girls, freshman, junior varsity, varsity) as well as many middle schools. No competition here, IAABO is the only kid on the block for high school basketball. Even with subvarsity officials working freshman/junior varsity doubleheaders, if a couple of guys get injured, or sick, or decide to take a three day ski weekend up north, we're having trouble covering really busy nights, usually Fridays. Sometimes we have to assign varsity officials to junior varsity/varsity doubleheaders, something that is greatly frowned upon by athletic directors, and varsity coaches, who want fresh officials for their varsity games. Game fees for 2016/2017: varsity fee: $94.63, subvarsity fee: $61.39, almost all two person games.

I laugh at that. They want fresh officials and then use 2-person crews.

Cry me a river.

Hire 3 to work both JV/V and it helps with both "problems", doesn't it?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

They want fresh officials and then use 2-person crews.

Years ago, if a junior varsity official didn't show up for a game (traffic, schedule error, etc.) and the varsity official was at the site, the varsity official had to get permission from both varsity coaches to jump into the junior varsity game.

The winningest, and most influential, coaches in the state coaches association, who play full court defense, and man to man defense, are erroneously afraid that their best players will get in more foul problems with three officials. The state coaches association has sway over the high school interscholastic sports governing body. A few urban rivalries have three persons crews, but otherwise three officials aren't used until the quarterfinals of the state tournament.

And, of course, it's a little bit about money.

Note: Officials fees, in all sports, are tied to the state average teacher salary increase every year. I've gotten a basketball fee raise every year for the past thirty six years. Next year, officials in all sports have decided to accept a fee freeze due to state budget reductions in local school funding.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I laugh at that. They want fresh officials and then use 2-person crews.

Cry me a river.

Hire 3 to work both JV/V and it helps with both "problems", doesn't it?

Sort of....with the same number of games and the same number of officials, every official (on average) will have to work 50% more games under a 3-person system than a 2-person system. So, the overall freshness benefit is debatable. I do think it still leans in favor of 3-person, but it isn't as dramatic as it would be if the number of officials weren't constrained.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sometimes we have to assign varsity officials to junior varsity/varsity doubleheaders, something that is greatly frowned upon by athletic directors, and varsity coaches, who want fresh officials for their varsity games.

Two things here: First, are you saying that some think you can't work more than one game in a day and still be "fresh" enough for the second one?

Second, even if you only work one, you still have had all day to get tired doing something else. Most of us have day jobs, some obviously more strenuous than others.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Two things here: First, are you saying that some think you can't work more than one game in a day and still be "fresh" enough for the second one?

Second, even if you only work one, you still have had all day to get tired doing something else. Most of us have day jobs, some obviously more strenuous than others.

1) Yes.

2) Then it would be day job, game #1, and game #2.

Things are slowly changing. Athletic directors, and coaches, are realizing that our local board is having trouble assigning officials to cover all games, especially Friday afternoons, and nights. Most are now accepting of officials covering freshman/junior varsity doubleheaders, and rarely, even junior varsity/varsity doubleheaders.

[Rich]

Depends on the school. While some use assigners, all my schools hire their own JV and lower officials.

Some are feeling the pinch of the reschedules right now. Tangent alert.

I would hope that officials aren't dumping JV assignments for varsity ones. Say what you want, but officials signed a contract to work those games and "getting a varsity offer" doesn't void that contract. I'm happy to work with people, but they should be finding subs to offer to the schools or the assigner. And this will sound really foreign to those that live elsewhere.

I've already quietly fired a couple of people this year who dumped one of my varsity games for another. Quietly cause they just won't get availability sheets when I assign my next season. Is it worth losing a conference and 4-6 games or more as well as the possibility of losing postseason eligibility to go work a "better" game?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've already quietly fired a couple of people this year who dumped one of my varsity games for another. Quietly cause they just won't get availability sheets when I assign my next season. Is it worth losing a conference and 4-6 games or more as well as the possibility of losing postseason eligibility to go work a "better" game?

Nope.

I have worked in six states now, and though it sucks being the new guy all the time, I do find that I catch up quickly in the "favor" of assignors because I always manage my availability diligently and honor my commitments. Despite my newness, my schedules quickly get good. Even in Wisconsin (despite my "vent" about crews and contracts before the season started, to be honest I've done all right this year).

To all new officials reading, heed this. At least at the high school level, 75% of the relationship between you and your assignor has nothing to do with how you call a game on the court. Take care of your assignor and he/she will take care of you. It's that simple. Well, maybe go to a camp once in a while, but otherwise it's that simple.