When has the gather occurred?

[Coach Bill]

I'd like to know when rule-wise the gather of a dribble has occurred? One of my guys does a drop-step where he takes one or two dribbles to the middle then simultaneous with picking the ball up, drops his front foot then his back and goes up strong. Is this a travel? If you rule he has gathered while his back foot is down, then it's a travel, of course. But, i don't know according to the rules when a gather has occured. I look at it similar to a Euro. Thanks!

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I'd like to know when rule-wise the gather of a dribble has occurred? One of my guys does a drop-step where he takes one or two dribbles to the middle then simultaneous with picking the ball up, drops his front foot then his back and goes up strong. Is this a travel? If you rule he has gathered while his back foot is down, then it's a travel, of course. But, i don't know according to the rules when a gather has occured. I look at it similar to a Euro. Thanks!

I personally don't use the term "gather." I look at when the dribble ends and where feet are when that happens. That tells me what is pivot etc.

In your play it sounds like the dribble ends when his front foot is going back. You say he "simultaneously picks ball up and steps front foot back." When he puts two hands on ball dribble has ended. That makes his back foot pivot. You say then he moves his back foot...and goes up strong". If he picked up that back foot and put it down before shot released that's travel.

Drop step I used-player steps back with first foot while last dribble is being pushed down. It is on the floor now when he ends dribble. Other foot is then brought around (making first the pivot) and goes up strong. Maybe that is what you are describing...

In the Chris Paul u tube video of euro step he ends dribble by hand going under ball. At that moment left foot is pivot. He steps right sideways etc. then across left and then up. Left foot was down, went up and down again then releases ball. It's travel. Not called in college and not in high school if done quickly. In college the rule/case book says give dribbler benefit when figuring out when dribble ends. Thx

[Raymond]

Judgement of the official

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I'd like to know when rule-wise the gather of a dribble has occurred? One of my guys does a drop-step where he takes one or two dribbles to the middle then simultaneous with picking the ball up, drops his front foot then his back and goes up strong. Is this a travel? If you rule he has gathered while his back foot is down, then it's a travel, of course. But, i don't know according to the rules when a gather has occured. I look at it similar to a Euro. Thanks!

When the dribble ends is defined in 4-Dribble (sorry, no books this morning so I can't give the exact number or quote).

But, it's when the ball comes to rest in one or both hands, or palms the ball, or touches it with both hands, or the opponent knocks it away.

[Camron Rust]

Rules-wise, there is no such thing as "gather".

Traveling is based on when the ball is held in one or both hands. As bob said "it's when the ball comes to rest in one or both hands, or palms the ball, or touches it with both hands".

Some people use the concept of gather improperly with regards to travel, essentially and incorrectly delaying start of the traveling rules to beyond when the ball is (rules-wise) caught, but when the ball is caught and secure in two hands and stably pulled into the body more like a catch in football.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Rules-wise, there is no such thing as "gather".

Traveling is based on when the ball is held in one or both hands. As bob said "it's when the ball comes to rest in one or both hands, or palms the ball, or touches it with both hands".

Some people use the concept of gather improperly with regards to travel, essentially and incorrectly delaying start of the traveling rules to beyond when the ball is (rules-wise) caught, but when the ball is caught and secure in two hands and stably pulled into the body more like a catch in football.

I'd be OK if they changed the rule to reflect this, but I really think things have evolved in application cause the prevailing mindset is that it's better to miss 10 travels than to call one that isn't really there.

[Coach Bill]

Thanks everybody! By the way, I have been told by numerous officials "He had gathered to go up for the shot. Two shots." Or something similar, that includes the word gather.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Thanks everybody! By the way, I have been told by numerous officials "He had gathered to go up for the shot. Two shots." Or something similar, that includes the word gather.

Not sure where you are from but Nobody around here uses that term. Camron is right. Gather makes people think catch. That isn't the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I have been told by numerous officials "He had gathered to go up for the shot. Two shots."

The trying motion may include arm,
foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd be OK if they changed the rule to reflect this, but I really think things have evolved in application cause the prevailing mindset is that it's better to miss 10 travels than to call one that isn't really there.

The travel calls I see made when not a travel usually have are not due to this.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Thanks everybody! By the way, I have been told by numerous officials "He had gathered to go up for the shot. Two shots." Or something similar, that includes the word gather.

Originally Posted by BigCat

Not sure where you are from but Nobody around here uses that term. Camron is right. Gather makes people think catch. That isn't the rule.

It might be an NBA term that has filtered down.

While not a NFHS rule-book term, I do think it *can* be a useful shortcut / concept.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Not sure where you are from but Nobody around here uses that term. Camron is right. Gather makes people think catch. That isn't the rule.

Well it is used a lot around here. And the old funny book used to use that as the start of the habitual motion by showing a picture of the ball being "gathered" in order to show when the shooting motion had started.

Peace

[just another ref]

The use/non-use of a certain term doesn't necessarily equate to the rules. A LOT of people use the terms over the back (I don't) and on the floor. (I do, sometimes)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The use/non-use of a certain term doesn't necessarily equate to the rules. A LOT of people use the terms over the back (I don't) and on the floor. (I do, sometimes).

Shame on you!

MTD, Sr.