Found this Gem 3 seconds

[Rob1968]

[QUOTE=ODog;996006]Again, not speaking to your example in particular, since these are HTBT situations, but the "attitudes" of the players (casual, leisurely, etc.) are never relevant when it comes to violations. Hell, if LGP was established and the defender remained within 6 feet, both players could turn their backs to each other in indifference and 5 seconds could still be called.


Are we sure about this? It is called "closely guarded" and not "closely located." I seem to recall a Case Book play that addresses this, unfortunately, I'm at a New Years Party, and don't have my books.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=Rob1968;996012]

Originally Posted by ODog

Again, not speaking to your example in particular, since these are HTBT situations, but the "attitudes" of the players (casual, leisurely, etc.) are never relevant when it comes to violations. Hell, if LGP was established and the defender remained within 6 feet, both players could turn their backs to each other in indifference and 5 seconds could still be called.


Are we sure about this? It is called "closely guarded" and not "closely located." I seem to recall a Case Book play that addresses this, unfortunately, I'm at a New Years Party, and don't have my books.

SITUATION 12: A1 is holding the ball in her/his frontcourt. B1 moves to within 6 feet and stands and faces A1. The official does not apply the closely guarded rule because B1 is not playing aggressively. RULING: The official is incorrectly applying the closely guarded rule. The amount of movement or the actual body movement of B1 is irrelevant. (Rule 4-10)

[Rob1968]

[QUOTE=bob jenkins;996025]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

SITUATION 12: A1 is holding the ball in her/his frontcourt. B1 moves to within 6 feet and stands and faces A1. The official does not apply the closely guarded rule because B1 is not playing aggressively. RULING: The official is incorrectly applying the closely guarded rule. The amount of movement or the actual body position of B1 is irrelevant. (Rule 4-10)

Thanks, Bob. The above noted statements and the requirement that during a closely guarded situation, the distance is measured from the front foot/feet of the opponent to the front foot/feet of the ball handler, seem to be contradictory. A defender standing with his back to the ball handler doesn't seem to be guarding the ball handler. And a mental image of a defender standing with his back toward the ball handler, who is also facing away from the defender, doesn't seem to fit the concept of guarding.
But, it's not the first time that a statement from the NFHS seems strange.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Thanks, Bob. The above noted statements and the requirement that during a closely guarded situation, the distance is measured from the front foot/feet of the opponent to the front foot/feet of the ball handler, seem to be contradictory. A defender standing with his back to the ball handler doesn't seem to be guarding the ball handler. And a mental image of a defender standing with his back toward the ball handler, who is also facing away from the defender, doesn't seem to fit the concept of guarding.

Ballhandlers routinely have their backs to defenders, so that should cause no confusion. And while it may seem strange/rare to have the defender also facing the other direction, it's not like that changes the distance you'd measure between the front of the players' feet (other than perhaps a few inches).

Am I saying I'd call this? Probably not. Am I saying it's a good look? Definitely not. But don't let fan myths or personal bias cloud your understanding of the actual rules of the game.

A mental image of a player at halfcourt with his back to the basket, tossing the ball over his head toward the goal doesn't seem to fit the concept of a try, but it can easily be judged a try nonetheless ...

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by ODog

Ballhandlers routinely have their backs to defenders, so that should cause no confusion. And while it may seem strange/rare to have the defender also facing the other direction, it's not like that changes the distance you'd measure between the front of the players' feet (other than perhaps a few inches).

Am I saying I'd call this? Probably not. Am I saying it's a good look? Definitely not. But don't let fan myths or personal bias cloud your understanding of the actual rules of the game.

A mental image of a player at halfcourt with his back to the basket, tossing the ball over his head toward the goal doesn't seem to fit the concept of a try, but it can easily be judged a try nonetheless ...

I gave those up when I started officiating in 1968.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ODog

... while it may seem strange/rare to have the defender also facing the other direction ...

Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent ... After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:
The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent ...

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Are we sure about this? It is called "closely guarded" and not "closely located."

If you receive a backcourt throw-in under the basket, and I have two feet down and am facing you from under the other basket, 80-90 feet away, I am guarding you ... not closely guarding you, but guarding you nonetheless.

It doesn't take much!

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by ODog

If you receive a backcourt throw-in under the basket, and I have two feet down and am facing you from under the other basket, 80-90 feet away, I am guarding you ... not closely guarding you, but guarding you nonetheless.

It doesn't take much!

Just for the sake of conversation, if all five of the opponents are facing the ball handler, from whatever distances, who is guarding whom?