Play location

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

is there really a reason to be right around the circle or 3 point line?

Keeping both teams behind the division line would unfairly restrict the ability of one coach to privately confer with his players.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Keeping both teams behind the division line would restrict the ability of one coach to privately confer with his players.

I have had coaches ask if they can confer with their kids? So it is clear that somewhere, somehow they feel they cannot do such a thing. That is not only on the officials, I am sorry it is not. Some things are done simply out of practice or assumption and it does not have to be us that is preventing them from being in certain places. Because if they go there, I am not telling them not to go there. That is their right.

Peace

[Adam]

this is a myth that starts early, and is perpetuated by officials who actually enforce it. For some reason, no one ever questions this. They question everything else under the roof, but this, they follow without question. Then, when we (the refs who know the rule) work a game, everyone just goes without being told anything.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by billymac

keeping both teams behind the division line would unfairly restrict the ability of one coach to privately confer with his players.

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

this is a myth that starts early, and is perpetuated by officials who actually enforce it. For some reason, no one ever questions this. They question everything else under the roof, but this, they follow without question. Then, when we (the refs who know the rule) work a game, everyone just goes without being told anything.

What are we supposed to tell them when they just go to a certain place and it is legal to be there? I have even had coaches talk to their players on the other side of the court. What are we supposed to tell them, "You guys can be right near the 3 point line?" If they go to the division line, I am not stopping them. And in a 3 person game, that is kind of where the Trail is going to be anyways.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

MS? I've seen it at HS and even college. Some people are just better at BSing than they are at being technicians.

Originally Posted by SC Official

Amen. Varsity and college officials are sometimes the worst offenders of officiating using myths. And these myths then trickle down to the lower levels.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Are these the officials doing this or the players themselves? I never tell players to go anywhere but not be on the line. They tend to go to the division line. So if you see them go there in my game, I did not have to tell them much of anything.

Think about it, is there really a reason to be right around the circle or 3 point line? I do not see one as there is no immediate rebound.

Peace

I'm going by what I've actually heard other officials tell players/coaches, not inferring anything from what the players do on their own.

I'm not just talking about this situation but situations in general. There is a number of officials out there that perpetuate various myths.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm going by what I've actually heard other officials tell players/coaches, not inferring anything from what the player do on their own.

I'm not just talking about this situation but situations in general. There is a number of officials out there that perpetuate various myths.

I have also heard officials misuse the rule as well, do not assume that when players do something, they had to have been instructed by the officials on that particular game. And there are plenty of people that are not officials that perpetuate myths. Just like someone saying "Over the back" or "moving screen" that feel these are also rules, but they keep yelling at officials about them.

Peace

[bucky]

Kinda reminds me of MS/HS soccer games when players get hurt, coaches and some officials tell all the players to "take a knee". I have played, coached, and reffed for 20+ years and have never understood why.

I dislike players gathering at the division line for T. They tend to continue the banter from the previous play. I have seen games like this where a T was called during a T. Yuck!

Kids should just go to their benches, both for getting calm and receiving instructions, but as mentioned, no legal requirement for such actions.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Keeping both teams behind the division line would unfairly restrict the ability of one coach to privately confer with his players.

I have posted about this before, but I had a partner a few years ago that not only required the players to all stand behind the division line, but told the coach on the other end of the court that he could not confer with his players because the coach on the bench on the end where we were shooting couldn't either. I guess he was trying to make things fair but he screwed up two rules (Or rule myths) at the same time.

I am also amazed that this is the only thing that no one ever questions when it is enforced. It's like we could tell them to go stand on their heads and they would do it. It has been on the Part 2 test several times too, including this year. I still hear people say they enforce it for "game management" reasons even if they know the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I still hear people say they enforce it for "game management" reasons even if they know the rule.

Excerpt (below) from my Non-Pulitzer Prize winning article, Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game.

Calvin Coolidge once said, "The things I did not say never hurt me." Of course, he was not talking about basketball, but many officials would be smart to heed his sage advice as they communicate with coaches, and players.

"Everybody get behind the division line”, often said by an official before free throws for a technical foul, or an intentional foul, is also not rule based. According to the rule, the nine non-shooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended, and behind the three point arc, and do not have to stay behind the division line. In some cases, this may allow players to legally converse with their coaches.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What are we supposed to tell them when they just go to a certain place and it is legal to be there? I have even had coaches talk to their players on the other side of the court. What are we supposed to tell them, "You guys can be right near the 3 point line?" If they go to the division line, I am not stopping them. And in a 3 person game, that is kind of where the Trail is going to be anyways.

Peace

Where did I suggest or say anything to make you think I want us to do something about it? I don't care where players go by the time they get to my game. You're arguing against statements I never made.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Where did I suggest or say anything to make you think I want us to do something about it? I don't care where players go by the time they get to my game. You're arguing against statements I never made.

It sounded to me like you were implying that officials are the ones that give the players or coaches the bad information.

I called a T last week in a game and I did not say anything to the players at all. They migrated to the division line if I recall and no one told them not to go there by either the coaches or the officials. I think it is just one of those things that everyone seems to feel is the rule and they just do it anyway.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

this is a myth that starts early, and is perpetuated by officials who actually enforce it. For some reason, no one ever questions this. They question everything else under the roof, but this, they follow without question. Then, when we (the refs who know the rule) work a game, everyone just goes without being told anything.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What are we supposed to tell them when they just go to a certain place and it is legal to be there? ...

Peace

Originally Posted by Adam

Where did I suggest or say anything to make you think I want us to do something about it? I don't care where players go by the time they get to my game. You're arguing against statements I never made.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It sounded to me like you were implying that officials are the ones that give the players or coaches the bad information.

Peace

He did suggest there are officials giving the players/coaches bad information. But, he never said that we should do anything to counter that instruction. He only suggested that no players or coaches ever question that, they just do it.

Officials are indeed directing player to go there. I've heard it....in high school. What if you have a partner call a T on a kid for being in the frontcourt talking to his coach while the FTs are being shot? Are you going to just let that be?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He did suggest there are officials giving the players/coaches bad information. But, he never said that we should do anything to counter that instruction. He only suggested that no players or coaches ever question that, they just do it.

Officials are indeed directing player to go there. I've heard it....in high school. What if you have a partner call a T on a kid for being in the frontcourt talking to his coach while the FTs are being shot? Are you going to just let that be?

I am sure there are officials "somewhere" that are directing the players on some level just like there are officials that do other things that are not rules based. But I just have not run into anyone in a very long time that even said anything to the players other than getting off the lane. Where they go I cannot think of a single official in any recent situation telling them to specifically go to the division line.

Well we can play the "What if" game all day. But I have never heard or seen anyone T anyone for where they stand during a T free throws, at least in any game I was working. Usually to work varsity ball here you have to kind of earn that opportunity and not make obvious rules mistakes. And I certainly never require players to not be in the FC. The closest thing I ever can remember to an official trying to prevent players from talking to their coach and that official was quickly corrected. I never suggested that I would "let it be." I just do not see this epidemic that you and others are suggesting seems to be a common problem. Even at the lower levels I do not see that kind of instruction. Players go to the division line on their own.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... said anything to the players other than getting off the lane.

Players often don't recognize that an intentional foul has been called, or aren't familiar with the restrictions regarding non-shooter positions for such a foul. When they start to line up on the lane line, I just wave them back and say "Get back". I don't care where they go, as long as it's not in the restricted area. I'm not giving a rules clinic out there.