3 Qs

[so cal lurker]

1. At a varsity tournament, a visiting player forgot his dark game shorts and entered the game wearing his white ones instead? Is that permitted or should he have not been allowed? (When he went in the second time, he was wearing dark practice shorts.)

2. A team that was pressing had a habit of catching or hitting the ball each time they scored -- how much does it take before you call a delay of game on that. (From the comfort of the stands, I thought it was too much, but the referees did not. Interestingly, the referees did call 2 different delays on that that team (one for not coming back promptly after a player was helped off for an injury and one for breaking the plane challenging a post basket TI).

3. How much do you worry about toes on FT line. When I played, it seems refs loved to call this; as I watch my son's games, it looks (again, from the stands) like many players are just over the line and no one cares. So is that one of those "don't nit pick" calls these days?

[JRutledge]

1. Rules do not cover the color of the shorts. They all could wear different colors and not be illegal.

2. I would tell the player to "stop it" but only make it an issue if it literally delayed the team from getting the ball.

3. Don't worry about it, I just tell them to move back quietly if it is the first time I see it is close.

Peace

[BryanV21]

1. I don't believe there are any restrictions on the shorts of a uniform.. only the jerseys.

2. While I have told players to leave the ball alone after a basket, I would only give a DOG when the other team says something about it. I'm not going to make an issue out of something. Unless it's egregious, I guess. One of those "have to see it" to say for sure how I'd handle it things.

3. I make it a point to look at everybody, shooters and players in lane spaces, to make sure they are legal before bouncing the ball to the FT shooter. If they are legal, cool. If not I tell them to move accordingly. If they violate once the FT shooter has the ball, I call it. I only give leeway in that area if it's a game among kids (like 6th grade or lower).

[Adam]

2. If it actually delays the other team, I call it. If not, it may come up in conversation with the coach. I'd rather deal with it early than have to hammer them in the 4th quarter when they finally create an advantage with it.

2a. "not coming back promptly?" Is that a new DOG I wasn't aware of?

3. "Watch your toes" seems to work for me.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

1. At a varsity tournament, a visiting player forgot his dark game shorts and entered the game wearing his white ones instead? Is that permitted or should he have not been allowed? (When he went in the second time, he was wearing dark practice shorts.)

2. A team that was pressing had a habit of catching or hitting the ball each time they scored -- how much does it take before you call a delay of game on that. (From the comfort of the stands, I thought it was too much, but the referees did not. Interestingly, the referees did call 2 different delays on that that team (one for not coming back promptly after a player was helped off for an injury and one for breaking the plane challenging a post basket TI).

3. How much do you worry about toes on FT line. When I played, it seems refs loved to call this; as I watch my son's games, it looks (again, from the stands) like many players are just over the line and no one cares. So is that one of those "don't nit pick" calls these days?

1. What Rut said.
2. This isn't a bad habit, it's a tactic. And officials unwilling to curb it are co-conspirators in the illegal ploy. A. Extend to them the courtesy of verbally warning them the very first time you see it. B. The very next time, warn them officially, including taking the time to notify the scorer to record the warning in the book. C. Administer the proper well-deserved technical if necessary after that.
3. As I have observed the practice, now extinct around here, I don't think it's so much that it's being ignored as it is some officials using free-throw time as a personal time-out time, not being in the mechanically correct position at the beginning of the free throw and then when the free-throw is released. They can't see it even if they were looking for it and don't want to guess so don't call it when it happens. What better way to stop it than to call it when you see it? And for any who would say, "What difference does it make?", please leave a list of violations you "aren't not-picky about" and do not call at the table so that the next crew is able to ignore the same things so as to maintain a sense of consistency from game to game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

2a. "not coming back promptly?" Is that a new DOG I wasn't aware of?

My thoughts exactly. But we do have this in our tool belt:

Team technical: A team shall not: Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or
from being put in play.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Adam

2a. "not coming back promptly?" Is that a new DOG I wasn't aware of?

Heck, I don't know -- I'm just a curious BB dad who hasn't reffed a BB game in decades (and was entirely self trained when I did).

I was surprised that it was a DOG instead of putting the ball down on the floor for resumption of play,but I just assumed it was because of the nature of the restart - I'm pretty sure, but not positive, it was after an official stopped play for an injured player.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Heck, I don't know -- I'm just a curious BB dad who hasn't reffed a BB game in decades (and was entirely self trained when I did).

I was surprised that it was a DOG instead of putting the ball down on the floor for resumption of play,but I just assumed it was because of the nature of the restart - I'm pretty sure, but not positive, it was after an official stopped play for an injured player.

They did it wrong if they called a dog for this. Sadly, many officials use the DOG as a sort of "catch-all" when they're afraid to use the proper tools. The problem with doing that was displayed in your game, as the 2nd one should have been a technical foul. NFHS rules, it is a technical foul on the 2nd DOG warning regardless of the specific type.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Interestingly, the referees did call 2 different delays on that that team (one for not coming back promptly after a player was helped off for an injury and one for breaking the plane challenging a post basket TI).

The second delay for any of the delay items is a T is HS; you get a warning for *each* delay in college.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Adam

. NFHS rules, it is a technical foul on the 2nd DOG warning regardless of the specific type.

They did give the T on the second DOG.

Another scenario from a tournament game.

White on offense, shot hits rim, offensive rebound, play continues. Wild shot thrown up as shot clock expires. Shot hits backboard only and is grabbed by blue at about the same moment the whistle blows for the violation since it didn't hit the rim. White coach becomes unglued, as he (correctly) argues that the shot clock was not reset. Officials confer, put 17 seconds back on the shot clock and give the ball back to white. Blue coach now objects - arguing that white got the rebound, and the ball can't possibly go back to white after the missed shot. Officials again confer, signal a jump, and go to the arrow, which gives the ball to blue.

So:
1. obviously the big problem is the shot clock operator fell asleep, but should the officials have noticed the shot clock did not return in the first place and have avoided this? (2 man team)
2. If the coach noticed the shot clock hadn't reset and called a TO before it expired, would he get it back, or would he still get charged as it was not a CE?
3. since the violation occurred as soon as the shot obviously failed to hit the rim, I gather the officials were ultimately correct to go to the arrow, even though white grabbed the rebound as the whistles blew?

(While white got somewhat rooked on this play, they got it back with another table error: the table failed to flip the arrow at the start of the next quarter, so white got the ball on successive trips to the arrow. After that, the officials were very aware of watching the arrow.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Another scenario from a tournament game.

Probably worth a new (separate) thread?

[Smitty]

#2 - if a team is pressing and they hit the ball away from the team who will be throwing the ball in after a made basket, I will give the DOG warning. It's an unfair advantage that allows the defense to set up their press and delay the inbounding team from getting the ball in quickly. I don't understand why you wouldn't give this a DOG warning.