Removal of Spectator

[Nevadaref]

I believe that you handled it extremely well.

I disagree with the posters who have stated not to forfeit the game because of the poor spectator behavior. The rules state that the officials may assess technical fouls to either team for spectator behavior and that the R has the power to forfeit the game when conditions warrant.

And for those wondering, yes, I would have charged a team technical foul to the visiting team for this fan's unacceptable behavior.

[JRutledge]

I would just have the individual removed. No need to do more than that at that point of the contest. Be strong with the AD and tell them they need to remove the individual or we will all wait for him to be removed. Then I would report the incident to the state and let them deal with the AD for not getting rid of this individual in a timely manner. The state will deal with them better than making it about the overall contest will.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would have charged a team technical foul to the visiting team for this fan's unacceptable behavior.

How can one prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the fan was associated with the visiting team? Maybe he's a neutral fan? Maybe he's a "plant" and is actually a home team fan? Very slight chance, but it is possible.

2.8.1 SITUATION: What guidelines should be exercised by the officials when
spectators’ actions are such that they interfere with the administration of the
game? RULING: The rules book states “the official may rule fouls on either team
if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the
game.” It is significant to note the word used is “may.” This gives permission, but
does not in any way imply that officials must call technical fouls on team followers
or supporters for unsporting acts. Thus, while officials do have the authority
to penalize a team whose spectators interfere with the proper conduct of the
game, this authority must be used with extreme caution and discretion. While the
authority is there, the official must rarely use it, because experience has demonstrated
that calling hasty technical fouls on the crowd rarely solves the problem
and may, in fact, result in penalizing the wrong team because the official may not
have proper knowledge as to which team's supporters were responsible for the
unsporting act. COMMENT: Responsibility for the behavior of spectators is that
of home or game management. The rules book stipulates that insofar as the management
can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, it is its responsibility
to do so. Home management has the responsibility of providing a site where
the game can proceed in a sporting manner. If the conduct of spectators prohibits
the orderly continuance of a game, the officials should have a representative of
game management take whatever action is necessary. This may require the
removal of a team follower(s). This can be done without charging the supporters'
team with a technical foul. The advised procedure is for the official to notify game
management as to which follower(s) must be removed from the site. The officials
may stop the game until host management resolves the situation. Another problem
arises when team supporters throw debris, paper, coins, ice or other items
on the floor. If the official has positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw
the items, the official should instruct game management to have the supporter(s)
removed from the site. As in the previous case, this can be done without charging
the supporters' team with a technical foul. If the official does not have positive
knowledge, the official should instruct game management to make a public
address announcement stating that the next time debris is thrown on the floor, it
will result in a technical foul charged to that supporters' team and will also result
in the supporter(s) being removed from the facility. If after the announcement, the
situation is not brought under control, the officials may also stop the game until
host management resolves the situation. In most situations, after an announcement
has been made, game management is very aware of the problem and will
usually have positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw the items on the
floor. If the disruption is not brought under control and the contest cannot safely
continue, rather than assess several technical fouls, officials are advised to
suspend the game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And for those wondering, yes, I would have charged a team technical foul to the visiting team for this fan's unacceptable behavior.

Those of us who have been around weren't really wondering.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Those of us who have been around weren't really wondering.

LOL!!!

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

I disagree with the posters who have stated not to forfeit the game because of the poor spectator behavior.

Let me see if I can be absolutely clear: YOU NEVER, EVER FORFEIT A GAME. Not for ANY reason. You SUSPEND the game and turn it over to someone else. I don't care if the rule says, "shall forfeit." Someone else can always do that later but if you screw up for whatever reason and forfeit a game that shouldn't be forfeited, it is done. On the flip side, I can't think of any reason why suspending a game (rather than declaring a forfeit) would cause trouble.

I would probably clear the stands first if there were multiple fan problems but absent that, I'm suspending the game if it is so bad we can't continue. If a team doesn't show, I'm suspending the game. If a team walks off the floor, I'm suspending the game. If there is violence directed toward an official, I'm suspending the game.

[jTheUmp]

echoing what others have said for next time:
1) never talk to the fan.
2) tell the AD to handle it.
3) When AD weasels out, get home coach involved. Not really necessary to get visiting coach involved, but if you're sure was a visiting team fan (and, considering it was a freshman game, I'm sure it was pretty obvious who he was rooting for), I'm ok with getting visiting coach involved.

At this point, I'd probably just head back to the locker room and tell the coach/AD to come get you if and only if the jackass has left the building.

And, since the AD weaseled of his duties, a phone call to the assigner is in order as soon as you can get to your car; probably with at least an email to the assigner and possibly a report to the state later in the evening. These steps are mainly so that the assigner and state governing body can read the AD the riot act so this doesn't happen again in the future when a fan needs to be removed.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Let me see if I can be absolutely clear: YOU NEVER, EVER FORFEIT A GAME. Not for ANY reason. You SUSPEND the game and turn it over to someone else. I don't care if the rule says, "shall forfeit." .

DO YOUR JOB. If a coach doesn't leave after second T...FORFEIT the game like the rule says. If you're afraid to make the decision you should probably find something else to do. "Turn it over to someone else" isn't what we do.

The "shall forfeit" language applies to team conduct. I've never had to do it but I can tell you if a coach would ever get a second T and refuse to leave I would tell the scorer the game is a forfeit.

Fan behavior doesn't fall under the shall forfeit language. Like others have said, I will look to AD or whomever to remove the person. If police are present and are involved I will play on. Police can forcibly remove someone. If there's no police, most underclass games, wait to resume game until person leaves. If he won't leave, you leave and write the report.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

DO YOUR JOB. If a coach doesn't leave after second T...FORFEIT the game like the rule says.

Help me out here, which rule?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by adam

help me out here, which rule?

5-4-1. I was responding to a poster's comment that we should "never, ever, forfeit a game even when the rule says 'shall' forfeit." This section deals with players, coaches, team personnel acting like idiots. Getting Ts and refusing to comply with the penalty. Rule says "shall forfeit" here. If a coach acts so badly that we think he needs 2 Ts and ejected then, if he refuses to leave, we should tell the scorer on the way out the game's a forfeit, the score is….

Personally, if someone says they aren't comfortable doing that id wonder if the second T was warranted. If it is/was and the coach continues to act like an idiot and won't leave, i don't know why we wouldn't follow the rule. I think officials need to be aware that tossing a coach is a big deal and you need to be sure its necessary. Then beware of what to do if he won't leave. This is certainly an extreme example but i just didn't agree with the "never ever" language.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that you handled it extremely well.

I disagree with the posters who have stated not to forfeit the game because of the poor spectator behavior. The rules state that the officials may assess technical fouls to either team for spectator behavior and that the R has the power to forfeit the game when conditions warrant.

And for those wondering, yes, I would have charged a team technical foul to the visiting team for this fan's unacceptable behavior.

Rule says stop the game for spectator behavior and let game management deal with it. If game can't proceed then suspend. Fan behavior can be a reason to assess a T, (I've never done it or seen it) . Forfeit for fan behavior isn't a choice under rules as far as I remember.

[packersowner]

I one time had a partner end a game halfway through the 4th quarter. Walked off the court sputtering something leaving me to clean up the pieces. Worst part was he had to stick around for the Varsity game. I was never so happy to leave. AD asked him what happens and he said, "tired of the fans bitching and the game was turning into a rugby match."

Some days you're happy to be home by 6.

[Mark Padgett]

OK - this isn't a "Dave-ism", but it's kind of close. Some of you may remember a former poster to this site named Rainmaker. Quite a few years ago, we were working a boys MS rec game. At halftime, she went over to the scorer's table. Some jerk stood up a few rows behind the table, held his glasses out in front of him and said to her, "Hey ref. You want to borrow my glasses?" She gave him our standard response, "Why? They're not doing you any good." The other parents cracked up and were laughing really loud. The jerk got PO'd, put up his fist and said to her, "You want to come up here and say that?" It was as if he was so mad that he wanted to hit her! The place went quiet. She looked at him again and said, "Why? Is your hearing bad too?" Again, the gym cracked up. The guy was so taken aback that he left!

I asked her where she got that second reply. She said it just popped into her head. She also asked me to walk her to her car after the game, just in case. I did, and the guy was nowhere to be seen.