Deliberately versus accidentally scoring in own basket

[soadyp]

The FIBA Rules state:

16.2.2. If a player accidentally scores a field goal in his team’s basket, the goal counts 2 points and shall be recorded as having been scored by the captain of the opposing team on the playing court

16.2.3. If a player deliberately scores a field goal in his team’s basket, it is a violation and the goal does not count.

So how to interpret Deliberately. I looked in the FIBA official interpretations. There is no example covering this point.

If a ball is knocked in during rebounding or a pass is deflected in the basket then this can easily be seen as an accidental field goal and counts.
Clearly should count
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8QhF5SKVFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SA4v719lM

But what if a player deliberately puts the ball in the basket. They forgot which basket they should be putting the ball in.

• Is this a deliberate action that is mistaken?
• or an accidental action since the player was confused ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aj-omMYoTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRTqml_hL_c

Does 16.2.2 or 16.2.3 apply and why ?
What is the correct ruling in NBA ?

[BigCat]

I have no clue about FIBA rules. I'm only replying because I didn't want you to have 0 replies to your question. Hope someone else can help you.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by soadyp

The FIBA Rules state:

16.2.2. If a player accidentally scores a field goal in his team’s basket, the goal counts 2 points and shall be recorded as having been scored by the captain of the opposing team on the playing court

16.2.3. If a player deliberately scores a field goal in his team’s basket, it is a violation and the goal does not count.

So how to interpret Deliberately. I looked in the FIBA official interpretations. There is no example covering this point.

If a ball is knocked in during rebounding or a pass is deflected in the basket then this can easily be seen as an accidental field goal and counts.
Clearly should count
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8QhF5SKVFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SA4v719lM

But what if a player deliberately puts the ball in the basket. They forgot which basket they should be putting the ball in.

• Is this a deliberate action that is mistaken?
• or an accidental action since the player was confused ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aj-omMYoTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRTqml_hL_c

Does 16.2.2 or 16.2.3 apply and why ?
What is the correct ruling in NBA ?

Just a suggestion, but don't overthink this. If they score in their own basket give their opponents the ball and the score. You don't want to be the first official to make the delineation between "deliberate" and "accident".

[bob jenkins]

I would vote for "intended the ball to go through THE basket", not "the INCORRECT basket."

[BigRedRef]

The way I understand the rule, this is in place for instances like world championships etc. where there is a group play portion of the tournament leading to a knockout round. This is to stop a team from intentionally losing or manipulating their points for/against to gain a favorable match-up in the knockout round.

Outside of a situation like that I would not overthink it. A player losing their sense of direction or making a mistake would not be deliberate, and therefore not apply under this rule.

[constable]

Off the top of my head, is this rule not very similar to the NFHS rule? I don't have my fed rule book handy.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by constable

Off the top of my head, is this rule not very similar to the NFHS rule? I don't have my fed rule book handy.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Yes -- this rule is NOT very similar to the NFHS rule.

[constable]

What's the NFHS rule? I don't have my fed book handy.. To be honest, I can't say I've ever had someone deliberately score on their own basket

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by constable

What's the NFHS rule? I don't have my fed book handy.. To be honest, I can't say I've ever had someone deliberately score on their own basket

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Well, in FED, you try to throw the ball in your own basket.

But, either way, it's two points for the team whose basket the ball went through, and a throw-in for the team not credited with the points.

[BoomerSooner]

I'll preface this by saying I've never worked FIBA or even read the FIBA rule book. I'm trusting that what is provided by previous posters is accurate with regard to information from the FIBA rules and interpretations. With that said, here is my somewhat legalistic review of this situation:

The challenge is to determine what the rule-maker's intent was when using the phrase "deliberately scores a field goal in his team's basket". The confusion is in the placement of the word "deliberately". Had the phrase read, "scores a field goal deliberately in his team's basket", we would all agree the intent is to prevent a player from knowingly trying to score for the other team. I assume this was the intent and how I would enforce it (i.e. the confused player scoring for his opponent would not be in violation). The problem is that placing "deliberately" before "scores a field goal" suggests the possibility that the intent is to entirely prevent a player from intentionally scoring for his opponent even if he is unknowingly doing so. The aspect of the rule referring to "accidentally" scoring in a player's own basket is not really of any help because it doesn't define what qualifies as an "accident". I agree with the OP that a deflected pass or a tipped ball during rebounding action is what this rule is intended to cover, but there is nothing presented that suggests it extends to the situation at hand to cover a player that intentionally scores but accidentally in his own basket.

Without a prevailing interpretation from FIBA, either interpretation could be supported. As a general custom, I'd say you are left to follow the expectations of those in your local area. If at some point FIBA clarifies this in the opposite direction of what we all believe was their intent, I don't think it would be a situation whereas anyone should feel like they've been wrong for all those years.

[soadyp]

Thanks for the feedback.
I was glad to see that the common consensus is to look at the rule as someone trying to manipulate for and against points in a tournament etc.
Not aimed at a genuine incorrect basket mistake.

I have seen the wrong basket in real life and on video quiet a few times now and never saw a ref call it deliberate.

So, I dont plan to be the first to make that call unless I think they really are trying to manipulate for and against points.

I did see once in a tournament where it was advantageous for side to win by as few as points as possible to knock a better team out, where a lead was 'managed'. But it didnt go as far as to score in their own basket.

[jamesshank]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I have no clue about FIBA rules. I'm only replying because I didn't want you to have 0 replies to your question. Hope someone else can help you.

That was nice and funny at the same time...great combination...Thanks

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'm only replying because I didn't want you to have 0 replies to your question.

With the added benefit of adding to your Forum post total, allowing you to inch yourself toward improving your status from an Official Forum Member to an Esteemed Forum Member. You sly old dog. But most of us can see right through this ruse.