Women's Final Four Officials

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a big difference in how whites interact with white officials than they do someone not of that race or culture. And when we have conflict it might be easier to understand the interactions and to deal with the interactions.

Revisions c. 1950.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Revisions c. 1950.

See Brown vs. Board of Education, 1954.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I have a lot of schools witn all Caucasian players and coaches. Based on what you're saying, I should stop sending African-American officials to those schools.

If you got that out of this discussion, then you were not really paying attention. If you were paying attention, I clearly said that if there are officials that always look different than the participants in almost every situation, there is something wrong with that picture.

At the State Finals I just worked, every single team out of the 8 had an African-American starter on their programs. To be specific, 2 of the schools in 4A had an entirely African-American team and coach. Two of the Catholic School in 3A had also almost entirely African-American players and if they had a kid that was not Black, it was like one player in total that even played regularly. Now I am not suggesting that out of the 12 officials assigned that all 12 should be African-American, but we seem to not have any issues if all 12 are Caucasian or even not from the area of the teams.

At least at the high school level this is an extension of classroom. One of the roles of an education is to have role-models or have our children have people that understand them. I do not think it is right to tell kids you can be everything in the game like a player or even a coach, but you cannot be the highest authority figure of the game which is an official. To me the situation that happen a view years ago in the 2A State Finals never happens when a racial slur is used and no one is ejected from the game, but they eject a kid for an initial reaction that happened to touch an official. Diversity on that crew might have curbed some of the extra-curricular crap going on that was clearly a difference in racial and cultural (on both sides) make-up.

I do not know what your situation is in Wisconsin or the teams that you assign, but I would assume that Milwaukee teams look a little different than teams from other parts. I am sure those assigning consider that when they have to assign those teams.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you got that out of this discussion, then you were not really paying attention. If you were paying attention, I clearly said that if there are officials that always look different than the participants in almost every situation, there is something wrong with that picture.

At the State Finals I just worked, every single team out of the 8 had an African-American starter on their programs. To be specific, 2 of the schools in 4A had an entirely African-American team and coach. Two of the Catholic School in 3A had also almost entirely African-American players and if they had a kid that was not Black, it was like one player in total that even played regularly. Now I am not suggesting that out of the 12 officials assigned that all 12 should be African-American, but we seem to not have any issues if all 12 are Caucasian or even not from the area of the teams.

At least at the high school level this is an extension of classroom. One of the roles of an education is to have role-models or have our children have people that understand them. I do not think it is right to tell kids you can be everything in the game like a player or even a coach, but you cannot be the highest authority figure of the game which is an official. To me the situation that happen a view years ago in the 2A State Finals never happens when a racial slur is used and no one is ejected from the game, but they eject a kid for an initial reaction that happened to touch an official. Diversity on that crew might have curbed some of the extra-curricular crap going on that was clearly a difference in racial and cultural (on both sides) make-up.

I do not know what your situation is in Wisconsin or the teams that you assign, but I would assume that Milwaukee teams look a little different than teams from other parts. I am sure those assigning consider that when they have to assign those teams.

Peace

I know that I've worked schools where the officials were the only Caucasians in the building (I lived in New Orleans for a while) and this was never an issue. I sometimes drive over 100 miles to work games involving city teams, including Milwaukee teams. More fun to work, more challenging to manage. Makes me better.

I won't deny that basketball is different in rural areas than in urban areas -- it is. I won't deny that there are officials who simply aren't prepared to work different styles of basketball. There are.

But to me, this has nothing to do with race.

I've met you once. I never saw you as Jeff Rutledge, African-American official. I just saw you as Jeff Rutledge, the guy I knew from the forum.

But you'll just tell me as a white guy I just wouldn't understand, so don't bother.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I know that I've worked schools where the officials were the only Caucasians in the building (I lived in New Orleans for a while) and this was never an issue. I sometimes drive over 100 miles to work games involving city teams, including Milwaukee teams. More fun to work, more challenging to manage. Makes me better.

I won't deny that basketball is different in rural areas than in urban areas -- it is. I won't deny that there are officials who simply aren't prepared to work different styles of basketball. There are.

But to me, this has nothing to do with race.

I've met you once. I never saw you as Jeff Rutledge, African-American official. I just saw you as Jeff Rutledge, the guy I knew from the forum.

But you'll just tell me as a white guy I just wouldn't understand, so don't bother.[/QUOTE]

I get what you are saying and I get what you are missing from my point of view. But once again when I am standing in front of people who are from this area that have never met me, they assume some very basic things about me and others without even asking. It is assumed for example that I came from Chicago or work Chicago Public League games. And that assumption is often made without any asking or trying to see past what I look like. So it can be part off the equation just like you would not assign officials that are not understanding of the place they are officiating games. I never said it was the only factor, but it is a factor like anything else.

All I will say is you probably would not understand because just like some other things you might not realize how different someone like myself my face basic, every day situations. That is not being dismissive, just stating what seems to be a fact with you or others until they see some things upfront.

If it matters to a Senator that comes up to me at the State Finals asking me why there are not more African-American officials, then it must be something that participants, coaches or fans notice on some level.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I believe that officials should look more like a cross section of everyone rather than just 3 of the same type of person on every game. I work in a rather urban area often and there is an effort to hire officials for games that look like the participants on some level.

Peace

I believe they call that (hiring based on race) illegal discrimination.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I believe they call that (hiring based on race) illegal discrimination.

Does not apply to independent contractors.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I believe they call that (hiring based on race) illegal discrimination.

Not sure that applies in a business where they hire based on multiple factors.

Walgreens or Walmart might hire you for a job and still put you in a location where you look like or represent the company. That is not discrimination, that is putting people where they will succeed or help grow the company.

And as said, we are independent contractors, people all the time reject the terms of the contract.

I also doubt it would be even close to discrimination when the majority of the representation of the staff looks nothing like the participants and the people doing the assigning are using a small percentage of their staff to give them certain assignments.

Peace

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I believe they call that (hiring based on race) illegal discrimination.

Does not apply to protected classes either. Meaning it is not illegal to hire a protected class over an unprotected class, especially to meet your Affirmative Action plan...assuming the two candidates are of equal ability and meet the job description.

Not saying it's right or wrong and not trying to make it political. Just pointing out it is not illegal to hire based on race in some instances.