Bookkeeping Predicament

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know this doesn't apply directly to you as you are not trying to get picked up on the NCAA-W's side, but the brand new hire as the MEAC women's staff supervisor expects officials to know such information.

One of your friendly local NBA officials has the expectation that anytime you blow your whistle for a foul you know all the consequences of said whistle: bonus or throw-in, time on shot clock (if applicable), disqualifying foul (5th or 6th depending on rule set).

Game awareness above and beyond the "average" official is most definitely a discriminator when it is time to make decisions (post-season assignments; hire to a college staff; recommend as a hire, etc).

Just food for thought, you never know who is watching. You're on top of this situation, then you go to a camp and an observer remembers you as the guy at his son/daughter's game who managed the game and kept everything flowing smoothly. You would be surprised at the amount of stories I've heard from accomplished officials who got noticed by the right person or the friend of the right person for doing things above and beyond expectations.

Yup, I get all this. Better than I used to be, that's for sure. I'm more aware of individual foul counts, who's got 4, who I've called 3 on, when we're at 7 TFs, etc. Work in progress. I may never be a college official but I enjoy the pursuit of betterment.

With three minutes between halves and in need of a drink of water, I didn't check the book at halftime like I would in a HS game. Wish I or my partner had. So we ended up where we did.

Sometimes despite best intentions, you make a mistake. When that happens, there's usually a procedure to follow. I can't think of one in this case, however. So I go back to my original question of "What do you do?" for which I have not yet received any professional opinions or rule/case citations.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

So I go back to my original question of "What do you do?" for which I have not yet received any professional opinions or rule/case citations.

Yes you did. Post 3. I agree with it.

For example, if you shot FTs in the first half, then there must have been at least 10 fouls in the first half -- the second half can be no more than 5. If you didn't shoot in the first half, you must have at least 6 in the second.

Maybe the scorer remembers what the numbers were at half-time.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes you did. Post 3. I agree with it.

For example, if you shot FTs in the first half, then there must have been at least 10 fouls in the first half -- the second half can be no more than 5. If you didn't shoot in the first half, you must have at least 6 in the second.

Maybe the scorer remembers what the numbers were at half-time.

Post 3. Good point. My partner tried that, but could only recall exactly 5 players who we'd called fouls in the 2nd half with certainty. But I knew in general the likely TF count was in the 8-10 range, which is why we inquired in the first place.

Scorer was clueless. Couldn't remember a thing under pressure. She looked like she wanted to hide under the table.

This was a good and measured response. Thank you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

... So I go back to my original question of "What do you do?" for which I have not yet received any professional opinions or rule/case citations.

That answer depends on whether or not you shot bonus free throws in the first half.

There are usually not any rules citations for such an off-the-wall situation. My mindset isn't what should I do if this happens again, my mindset is is how do I ensure this never happens again. Quite sure this will never happen again in any game you do no matter what level it is and how bad the scorekeepers are.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That answer depends on whether or not you shot bonus free throws in the first half.

There are usually not any rules citations for such an off-the-wall situation. My mindset isn't what should I do if this happens again, my mindset is is how do I ensure this never happens again. Quite sure this will never happen again in any game you do no matter what level it is and how bad the scorekeepers are.

I've had it happen. Not much you can do.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I've had it happen.

Low level Catholic middle school game. Parent coerced into keeping score as a last minute replacement. We didn't discover until the middle of the fourth period (when we figured that we should be in the bonus for at least one team) that she was only keeping track of total team fouls, not team fouls by half, and not individual player fouls. We pieced together definite known team fouls for each team that half, told her to start keeping track of individual player fouls, and moved on.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I've had it happen. Not much you can do.

You had it happen more than once to this extent? After it happened the first time did you adjust how you would handle situations in the future?

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[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You had it happen more than once to this extent? After it happened the first time did you adjust how you would handle situations in the future?

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Sorry, no, it's happened to me once. Now I *try* to remember to check the book at half time to see how many fouls there were in the first half. If it's a scorer I don't recognize, I'll remind them to start counting the 2nd half fouls.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

So I go back to my original question of "What do you do?" for which I have not yet received any professional opinions or rule/case citations.

A couple of thoughts:

• Often there is another book (or 2) in use. It might be a parent in the stands or an assistant coach. If so, find it and see what it says. Your have the authority (Rule 2-11-11) to use other information you deem reliable if there is a problem with the official book. I had that this weekend at a kids tournament: scoreboard and official book (kept by the same high school kid working for the venue) showed 7th foul. Each team had an adult keeping a book and they both showed 6 fouls. I decided they were correct.
• Get the coaches together and see if they can agree. If they do, then all set. If not, you tried one more thing to fix the error.
• On an ongoing basis, check with the scorer about team fouls. I don't like to be told "1 more to the bonus." I ask how many fouls on each time. Same with timeouts. Tell me how many they have used -- and I will do the math to figure out how many are left.

Piggybacking on what others have said about court awareness. At a college camp, a clinician told us that it did not matter that there was no scoreboard, no visible clock and only a kid at the table. It was our job to know the exact time and score at the end of the game -- and be prepared to adjudicate last second shots, etc. No excuses. It's our job.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Same with timeouts. Tell me how many they have used -- and I will do the math to figure out how many are left.

I don't need all this information. I only need to know when they've used their final timeout, and when they use any additional timeouts.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't need all this information. I only need to know when they've used their final timeout, and when they use any additional timeouts.

I make sure the scoreboard count jibes with my memory. If I think something is askew I will have the book verify.