Female Officials Officiating Boys Basketball

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What would you do if a coach or school told you that they didn't want any female officials for their boys contests?

What would you do if a coach or school told you that they didn't want any male officials for their girls contests?

I'd mention they might want to speak to their district attorney. This has lawsuit written all over it.

I kind of find it hard to believe that anyone would ask this and not understand the ramifications. I can't think of one thing that would prevent a woman from officiating a boys game. Conventional thought might say it's physical but If you feel a woman can't officiate a boys game for physical reasons, I can show you a roster full of fat men that can't either.

[johnny d]

Even with stricter enforcement and new emphasis on reducing physicality to promote freedom of movement, there is a big difference in how the boys and girls games are played, and the expectations for how much physicality is expected and/or accepted. Around here, you do not have to work both boys and girls games, even at the HS level. In fact most officials do not work both. I wouldn't say there would be a problem with a female working a boys game here, it happens, although very rarely, the problem would be with a girls official, female or male, working a boys game. The perception, and most often the reality is that it is very difficult to move back and forth between both. Many officials, regardless of sex, would have a hard time adjusting to the speed and physicality of the boys game, if the overwhelming majority of their games were girls games.

It wasn't a female trying to officiate a boys game, but we had a similar situation a few years ago in the IL 2A state championship game. A school from the Chicago Catholic League, that played up tempo, physical basketball, and who normally competed against and was competitive with much larger schools, was in that game. The officials were three men from an area of the state where they would hardly, if ever, see basketball at that speed, athleticism, and physicality. The officials were completely overmatched and rapidly lost control of the game. Many videos from that game were posted on this site.

Bottom line, for most officials, it isn't a matter of how good you may be, like most people, one is going to be a creature of habit. Through them into a radically new environment, and most are going to sink.

Could a female work boys games consistently around here. Of course she could, but she would have to commit to working almost exclusively boys games from early in her career. If she was good, she would move up the ranks, but much slower on the boys side. We have more officials interested in working boys games than girls games, so she would have more competition. Because she could move up much faster on the girls side, most female officials in this area choose working girls games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Even with stricter enforcement and new emphasis on reducing physicality to promote freedom of movement, there is a big difference in how the boys and girls games are played, and the expectations for how much physicality is expected and/or accepted. Around here, you do not have to work both boys and girls games, even at the HS level. In fact most officials do not work both. I wouldn't say there would be a problem with a female working a boys game here, it happens, although very rarely, the problem would be with a girls official, female or male, working a boys game. The perception, and most often the reality is that it is very difficult to move back and forth between both. Many officials, regardless of sex, would have a hard time adjusting to the speed and physicality of the boys game, if the overwhelming majority of their games were girls games.

It wasn't a female trying to officiate a boys game, but we had a similar situation a few years ago in the IL 2A state championship game. A school from the Chicago Catholic League, that played up tempo, physical basketball, and who normally competed against and was competitive with much larger schools, was in that game. The officials were three men from an area of the state where they would hardly, if ever, see basketball at that speed, athleticism, and physicality. The officials were completely overmatched and rapidly lost control of the game. Many videos from that game were posted on this site.

Bottom line, for most officials, it isn't a matter of how good you may be, like most people, one is going to be a creature of habit. Through them into a radically new environment, and most are going to sink.

Could a female work boys games consistently around here. Of course she could, but she would have to commit to working almost exclusively boys games from early in her career. If she was good, she would move up the ranks, but much slower on the boys side. We have more officials interested in working boys games than girls games, so she would have more competition. Because she could move up much faster on the girls side, most female officials in this area choose working girls games.

Not surprising, you said this better than me.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

... there is a big difference in how the boys and girls games are played ... it is very difficult to move back and forth between both ...

I sometimes have a tough time adjusting from a girls game on a Thursday night to a boys game on a Friday night. Yet, I have absolutely no problem doing the opposite (a girls game the next night after a boys game).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I sometimes have a tough time adjusting from a girls game on a Thursday night to a boys game on a Friday night. Yet, I have absolutely no problem doing the opposite (a girls game the next night after a boys game).

This was the first time in my career I didn't have to do a single girls game at all. And I loved it.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[Dad]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Even with stricter enforcement and new emphasis on reducing physicality to promote freedom of movement, there is a big difference in how the boys and girls games are played, and the expectations for how much physicality is expected and/or accepted. Around here, you do not have to work both boys and girls games, even at the HS level. In fact most officials do not work both. I wouldn't say there would be a problem with a female working a boys game here, it happens, although very rarely, the problem would be with a girls official, female or male, working a boys game. The perception, and most often the reality is that it is very difficult to move back and forth between both. Many officials, regardless of sex, would have a hard time adjusting to the speed and physicality of the boys game, if the overwhelming majority of their games were girls games.

It wasn't a female trying to officiate a boys game, but we had a similar situation a few years ago in the IL 2A state championship game. A school from the Chicago Catholic League, that played up tempo, physical basketball, and who normally competed against and was competitive with much larger schools, was in that game. The officials were three men from an area of the state where they would hardly, if ever, see basketball at that speed, athleticism, and physicality. The officials were completely overmatched and rapidly lost control of the game. Many videos from that game were posted on this site.

Bottom line, for most officials, it isn't a matter of how good you may be, like most people, one is going to be a creature of habit. Through them into a radically new environment, and most are going to sink.

Could a female work boys games consistently around here. Of course she could, but she would have to commit to working almost exclusively boys games from early in her career. If she was good, she would move up the ranks, but much slower on the boys side. We have more officials interested in working boys games than girls games, so she would have more competition. Because she could move up much faster on the girls side, most female officials in this area choose working girls games.

Great post, but I think the bold text could be over-looked or skimmed over. While the majority of my games are mens, I have no problem switching back and forth. As long as you're used to the tempo then I really see no problem, but it's why I think good officials should get a taste of it, even if they want to solely do women's basketball. Then again, I love watching games in 1.5x-2x and attempting to officiate.

BNR's post is an opinion held by many officials and I have no problem with it. Personally, I enjoy doing both, usually, but there's probably some bias because over the last two years we've had an abnormal amount of D1 players on the women's side.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

Great post, but I think the bold text could be over-looked or skimmed over. While the majority of my games are mens, I have no problem switching back and forth. As long as you're used to the tempo then I really see no problem, but it's why I think good officials should get a taste of it, even if they want to solely do women's basketball. Then again, I love watching games in 1.5x-2x and attempting to officiate.

I do not think that it is even about adjusting to calling the game, it is the standards that is also expected that tend to be very different as well.

I worked a game last year I believe that was a girls game and the coach went nuts over a play where his player went up for a shot and the only thing the defender touched was their loose part of their jersey on the shooter. The coach insisted that had to be a foul. If I had called that foul in a boys game, I would have been damn near crucified. I would rather not deal with the expectation that any girl that falls or is touched we must have a foul. That alone is the reason I accept no girls games. Girls can dribble through 3 defenders and coaches and players act like not calling a foul is a tragedy.

Peace

[Dad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think that it is even about adjusting to calling the game, it is the standards that is also expected that tend to be very different as well.

I worked a game last year I believe that was a girls game and the coach went nuts over a play where his player went up for a shot and the only thing the defender touched was their loose part of their jersey on the shooter. The coach insisted that had to be a foul. If I had called that foul in a boys game, I would have been damn near crucified. I would rather not deal with the expectation that any girl that falls or is touched we must have a foul. That alone is the reason I accept no girls games. Girls can dribble through 3 defenders and coaches and players act like not calling a foul is a tragedy.

Peace

Hmm, good point and I never really looked at it this way. I call both fairly similar and just deal with coaches if needed. I did have an argument in a big game this year with a "d1 women's official" who made a call right in front of me. His reasoning was we have to have a foul if a girl falls to the floor. He wouldn't budge after I threw logic at him for five minutes during half-time. I eventually just gave up.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I worked a game last year I believe that was a girls game and the coach went nuts over a play ...

I thought that you didn't work girls basketball. You've written on this forum several times how you don't have to in your area and refuse to do so.

[jpgc99]

One of the most important things in officiating is consistency, and this is what many of the posts above are really talking about. If you always officiate varsity boys basketball, you will likely identify the key things that you need to do to be consistent with the other officials that referee the same level, gender, type of basketball. If you do not quickly become consistent with them, you will not be calling that level for long.

In some areas, there is a noticeable difference in how the game is called --- by the various level (Varsity vs JV vs Youth), by the gender (boys vs girls), etc.

Any official will struggle when you take him out of the area where he works most of his games if the expectations are different.

For those of us that go to college camps, we often see this. There is a certain expectation teams, players, and coaches have for summer ball. They are used to getting a certain quality of official. When college guys come in, there is often a disconnect. The coaches don't realize they are getting the best officials in the area working their games; to them, we are actually inconsistent to how most of their summer games are called.

"When in Rome" can vary locally between the two genders and the various levels even in one area.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I thought that you didn't work girls basketball. You've written on this forum several times how you don't have to in your area and refuse to do so.

Yawn. Forum trolling is so 1998.

[constable]

Where I work, we do both. Girls season in the fall, Boys in the winter.

I work with a few officials who do a steady diet of both girls and guys ball. Exhibition. Rep. HS. Playoffs. College.

Newer officials here start out doing the ladies ball for a couple of reasons
1. It comes first in the school calendar year.

2. There tends to be less bullshit in the girls ball. The way our boys coaches behave, even towards our more seasoned officials might lead many to hang up the whistle.

Not everyone can make the adjustment. It is something I struggle with- especially going back and forth. Just when you think you are done with the girls game you get a girls rep game. The next day, you could have a men's college game.

Good officials adapt. It's what we do. The biggest adjustment for me when I prepare for a ladies game is remembering I might not need to toss the ball as high.

If a coach has a problem with an official I'm working with it better be because the kicked a call and not because they have a uterus. If it is the former, then fine as long as they don't cross the line. If it is the latter I hope they have a monitor in their dressing room because they aren't sticking around to watch it.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I can't think of one thing that would prevent a woman from officiating a boys game. Conventional thought might say it's physical but If you feel a woman can't officiate a boys game for physical reasons, I can show you a roster full of fat men that can't either.

Not to take away from the seriousness of this conversation, but I doubled over laughing when I read this.

Excellent (and funny) point.