Butler @ Georgetown Plays (Video)

[frezer11]

I thought they were going to go 9/9, until the very last call.

#1- I'm pretty sure I see contact on the arm. I wouldn't use path of the ball to call a foul, but in this forum/replay setting, I think I can use it to confirm the existance of a foul, because I don't see a block anywhere on the ball.

#2-Good Call

#3- Good Call

#4-Good Call

#5, #6: Easy Good calls, not even anything controversial about them.

#7: Looks loose to me, Blue gets it either way so I'm not losing any sleep.

#8: Very good call. Defender has LGP for a while, but when ball handler makes move to go around him to the right, defender begins to fall into his path.

#9: Just plain tough. Foul on 21 first? Sure, but as for the action that they had to sort out? I don't see anything that 21 does wrong, and the offense has his arm hooked and drags him with him. I think we see this play and sympathize and say things like I just did and say, "tough one to get." However, if he calls it on the offense, I think every one of us says, "Wow, what a great call to get, especially in real time!" (That is if we are ignoring the initial rebounding foul, which would've prevented the whole mess in the first place)

[jeremy341a]

This is the moment of contact. H player still has one foot on floor. I don't see the H player having head and shoulders past. I don't see the V player losing LGP as I never see them move towards the H player. I have PCF.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

This is the moment of contact. H player still has one foot on floor. I don't see the H player having head and shoulders past. I don't see the V player losing LGP as I never see them move towards the H player. I have PCF.

I think going about 2 frames before this is a more telling look. Home has the foot he's jumping off of on the floor, and the defender is not yet in front of him. As H starts his jump/upward motion, the defender, IMO is not yet in position. Watching it full speed I have a block, and when it's slowed down, I certainly think its a lot closer, but I still go block.

[deecee]

If it comes down to frame by frame I'll chalk it up to the officials getting it right no matter what 1 frame at a time may show.

[ballgame99]

Great clips.

The only ones I found my self questioning was the backcourt PC, I don't see the defender legally maintaining his lgp, and the last one, I think you get the rebound foul first and don't deal with all that armlock stuff. But once they are locked up like that as long as white gets the rebound and is going the other way can't you just no call it and let them have their fast break?

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I think going about 2 frames before this is a more telling look. Home has the foot he's jumping off of on the floor, and the defender is not yet in front of him. As H starts his jump/upward motion, the defender, IMO is not yet in position. Watching it full speed I have a block, and when it's slowed down, I certainly think its a lot closer, but I still go block.

His left foot is on the floor in this pic. I'm not saying they missed it as it is very close play happening at a very rapid speed. In fact I though block seeing it live.

[jeremy341a]

I don't think he has head and shoulders around the defender.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I don't think he has head and shoulders around the defender.

I think this picture is also misleading. If you just look at this frame alone, then absolutely it looks like a charge. But if you watch the video of the path of the offensive player, he's not really going to the hoop. In fact he both takes off and lands outside the lane, whereas the defender is in the lane the entire time.

[jeremy341a]

Doesn't contact to center chest show that he didn't get head and shoulders past or do you feel he didn't have LGP?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Doesn't contact to center chest show that he didn't get head and shoulders past or do you feel he didn't have LGP?

Contact with the center of the chest should not be a determining factor in calling either a block or a charge on any play. I feel the defender had LGP, and when the offensive player moved to his right, and didn't go through the defender, the defender slid into his path late. It's a close call no doubt, but I still go block

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Contact with the center of the chest should not be a determining factor in calling either a block or a charge on any play. I feel the defender had LGP, and when the offensive player moved to his right, and didn't go through the defender, the defender slid into his path late. It's a close call no doubt, but I still go block

Shouldn't it be a determining factor if you feel the defender has LGP? If the defender has LGP and gets hit in the chest how can the foul be on him? The offense didn't get head and shoulders past. Now if you want to say he didn't have LGP than I understand the point of center of chest not being the determining factor. However I feel he got back in the path of the offensive player before he leaves the floor. It is close and I can understand how you can see it the other way as well.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Shouldn't it be a determining factor if you feel the defender has LGP? If the defender has LGP and gets hit in the chest how can the foul be on him? The offense didn't get head and shoulders past. Now if you want to say he didn't have LGP than I understand the point of center of chest not being the determining factor. However I feel he got back in the path of the offensive player before he leaves the floor. It is close and I can understand how you can see it the other way as well.

You're right, and I agree with you how you worded this, I actually meant that center of the chest is irrelevant, because if you have LGP, you don't have to take it square in the chest, contact can be anywhere.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

1. Tough call to make, but looked like there was contact on the shooter's arm before he returned to the floor.

2. Perhaps I'm biased, growing up a Syracuse fan and hating Georgetown, but it looked like the defender moved into the dribbler's path. The defender gained LGP, but when the dribbler was going to go around him he moved sideways/towards the dribbler.

3. Ugh! I hate when players react like that to this play. The defender's arms were up and out in front of him at the time of contact (aka outside of his verticality). He pulled them straight up after the contact.

Slow down #3. Does it look like the offensive player hits the defender in the stomach?

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by frezer11

You're right, and I agree with you how you worded this, I actually meant that center of the chest is irrelevant, because if you have LGP, you don't have to take it square in the chest, contact can be anywhere.

Yes I agree with this. I was just meaning in this particular play it appeared in the center.