Throw-In Situation

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Except that its legal for a defensive player to knock the ball out of the hands of the thrower if the ball is held across the plane.

Yes, I know...What I have said is that if they were basing these plays on the ball location rules it would be a violation on the thrower in, A1, if anybody touched the ball while he was holding it over the plane. A1 is out of bounds. Not only legal for B to grab the ball or hit it but also it is a violation on A1.

I know that's not the rule, said so above and mentioned the rule 6 case play. It's a held ball when B grabs it, not a violation on A1. They are not basing these plays on ball location rules. They are using the throw in has not ended stuff...thx

[Adam]

This really isn't an exception, though, since if a ball is being touched by someone with IB and someone with OOB status, OOB trumps. So by ball location rules, the ball still has OOB status if B1 touches the ball when A1 reaches it across. What rule has A1 violated again?

I'm with Nevada, the "note" in the rules that says it's a violation on the thrower if he touches an inbounds player is stupid. Ball location is not affected if a dribbler makes contact with bench personnel or a sub with OOB status, why should this be any different?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

Ball location is not affected if a dribbler makes contact with bench personnel or a sub with OOB status, why should this be any different?

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Huh? Maybe I'm not understanding, but if a dribbler touches a person who is OOB (bench personnel, sub, security guard), the dribbler is OOB.

If the dribbler touches an object (score table, bleacher) then the dribbler is not OOB.

Doh, I may have this backwards, and I'm at everyone's mercy until I get home tonight.

I thought touching objects gave the player OOB status and touching persons did not.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

Doh, I may have this backwards, and I'm at everyone's mercy until I get home tonight.

I thought touching objects gave the player OOB status and touching persons did not.

7.1.1 A
SITUATION: A1 while holding the ball inbounds near the sideline, touches, (a) player; (b) a photographer; (c) a coach; (d) an official, all of whom are out of bounds.

RULING: A1 is not out of bounds, A1 must touch the floor or some objects on our outside a boundary line. People are not considered to be objects and play continues. Inadvertently touching someone who is out of bounds, without gaining and advantage, is not considered a violation.

The bold part I have a question about. What if A1 is on the sideline and looses their balance and reaches across the line and pushes on a coach to keep balance and not fall out of bounds. Violation? I think since this case play says inadvertently, and advantage, a violation would be right.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Huh? Maybe I'm not understanding, but if a dribbler touches a person who is OOB (bench personnel, sub, security guard), the dribbler is OOB.

If the dribbler touches an object (score table, bleacher) then the dribbler is not OOB.

Other way around. Touching a person out of bounds is ok. touching an object is OOB. 7-1

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

AP throw-in, backcourt endline.

A1 has the ball at disposal for the throw-in. Nearby, B1 is defending A2 who is trying to get in position to receive the throw-in pass from A1. Eventually, A2 fakes out her defender and gets close enough that A1 reaches out over the plane with the ball and starts to hand it to A2. However, A2 never grabs or possesses the ball. She comes close, but ultimately the ball rolled partially up her fingertips at which point B1 arrives and is able to get a firm grip on the ball while A1 is still holding it out over the plane.

Q1: Does the ball become dead at any point here, and if so, when/why?

Q2: Assuming there's a whistle and ruling of some sort, what happens next?

Bonus points for defense of answer with rule citation.

I think the second that A2 touches the ball while still in the hands of the A1, we have a throw in violation. The ball must be passed in on a throw in.

4.42.4.....The throw in count ends when the ball is released by the thrower so the passed ball goes directly into the court.

9.2.2.......The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

Since this is a throw in violation on the offense, team B will get the ball and the arrow will be switched to team B.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Other way around. Touching a person out of bounds is ok. touching an object is OOB. 7-1

Yes, that's what I typed. Don't know why it showed up the other way around on the list.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I think the second that A2 touches the ball while still in the hands of the A1, we have a throw in violation. The ball must be passed in on a throw in.

4.42.4.....The throw in count ends when the ball is released by the thrower so the passed ball goes directly into the court.

9.2.2.......The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

Since this is a throw in violation on the offense, team B will get the ball and the arrow will be switched to team B.

What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.

I would view this as a handoff. The second it left A1's hands and rolled up the fingertips of A2 the ball has been handed off.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I would view this as a handoff. The second it left A1's hands and rolled up the fingertips of A2 the ball has been handed off.

In the OP the ball never left A1's control

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, that's what I typed. Don't know why it showed up the other way around on the list.

Been there, done that…

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.

The argument could be made----A ball is located where a player is in contact with it. Ball is OOB when A1 has it. When inbounds player touches it it is also inbounds. The touch by the inbounds player changes the situation. Since A1 is out of bounds still. violation.

We know that isn't the rule. if it was it would be a violation on A1 when B grabbed the ball. Case play says it is a held ball.

I think you are right that even though an inbounds player touched the ball while it was over the plane, the status of it never changes. If A1 holds onto the ball it is like any other throw in that isn't touched by an inbounds player.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The argument could be made----A ball is located where a player is in contact with it. Ball is OOB when A1 has it. When inbounds player touches it it is also inbounds. The touch by the inbounds player changes the situation. Since A1 is out of bounds still. violation.

We know that isn't the rule. if it was it would be a violation on A1 when B grabbed the ball. Case play says it is a held ball.

I think you are right that even though an inbounds player touched the ball while it was over the plane, the status of it never changes. If A1 holds onto the ball it is like any other throw in that isn't touched by an inbounds player.

My thought is that if you have to stretch a rule so thin in order to make a call, it's probably best not to make the call.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The case play in rule 9 says it is a violation if A1 reaches out and touches another player on the court. Says that touching gives him inbounds status. We know if A1 is inbounds with the ball and touches another player who's out of bounds it does not make A1 out of bounds. Not sure why the opposite is true in the case play....

Be that as it may, the case play plainly states that this is a violation. The throw-in is a unique situation.

And having said all that, if this is a violation, the teammate touching the ball also seems to be a violation to me.

And if the above doesn't do it for you, perhaps the touch by the teammate could also be considered carrying the ball onto the court.