How many of you have medical training?

[pizanno]

Agree that officials should not step forward to administer first aid, but don't let that prevent you from being CPR trained for life-threatening situations on or off-the-court.

I renewed my training recently, and the big takeaway was emergencies happen everywhere and at any time, particularly in your own home or office. Being prepared to sustain a loved one until paramedics arrive is worth the six-hour training.

Training includes understanding complex good Samaritan laws and negligence if you are in a position of authority. Especially relevant if officiating in small school or rec situations where resources might be slim or none.

For more info:
CPR, First Aid and AED Certification | Red Cross

Might even make for a productive association activity. Be safe out there...

[Adam]

Unless it's something calling for CPR, I'm not getting involved. No, I would not take medical training if it was offered. My time is too valuable, and they're not going to pay me extra to work games if I get my EMT certificate.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Adam

Unless it's something calling for CPR, I'm not getting involved. No, I would not take medical training if it was offered. My time is too valuable, and they're not going to pay me extra to work games if I get my EMT certificate.

Well, since you shouldn't perform CPR unless there is no pulse and the patient is not breathing you are probably safe. Since no pulse and breath means the person is DEAD. Can't really make the condition worse.

[biggravy]

20 year paramedic. When someone gets hurt I cringe and start looking around for the "hero" coming out of the stands to save the day because I DO NOT want to get involved. That being said, most of the coaches by now are aware what I do for a living. My approach is to be where I can see what is going on, but let the coaches and hopefully the ATC on site handle things. ONLY in an apparent life threatening event (baseball game, commotio cordis... basketball game Hank Gathers type situation) will I willingly get involved.

My recommendation for non-medically trained officials would be to let the coaches and staff handle things.

Speaking of Hank Gathers, I use the video of his collapse and lack of treatment in a lecture I give at EMS conferences and to various EMS groups. I also work it in to my CPR training for laypersons. One of the biggest factors that hinders immediate CPR and treatment in sudden cardiac arrest is lack of recognition and thus treatment. Many times, sudden cardiac arrest may look like a seizure. In the Gathers situation the widely accepted theory is his initial collapse was from a life threatening arrythmia. He essentially converted back into a perfusing rhythm when he hit the floor thus the spontaneous movement seen on the tape. He then arrested again (his heart stopped). He was treated as though he suffered syncope (fainting) or a seizure. The jist of the lawsuits is that none of the medical personnel recognized cardiac arrest until several minutes AFTER he was carried to the locker room.

Last thing and I'll crawl back under my rock- Have you heard or seen about young athletes suddenly who die suddenly in practice or games? Google "Hypertrophic Obstructive Cardiomyopathy" and google "commotio cordis". If you are involved with an athlete who "faints" and a coach does not treat it serious, PLEASE treat this like a concussion situation and take it serious.

Ok one more thing- check out this article...

CPR AED cardiopulmonary resuscitation defibrillator first aid Nurse, EMT, Firefighter Cop Save Referee at Basketball Game | First Aid Corps

[Josh1993]

Thank you for the insightful answers. I'm very glad that the visiting coach took control.

Sure seems like a lot can go wrong at these games...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Josh1993

Thank you for the insightful answers. I'm very glad that the visiting coach took control.

Sure seems like a lot can go wrong at these games...

When Hank Gathers died on the floor in the late 80s, the family sued every doctor or medical personnel that was present. If anything goes wrong or you interfere in any way, they will come after you.

Peace

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When Hank Gathers died on the floor in the late 80s, the family sued every doctor or medical personnel that was present. If anything goes wrong or you interfere in any way, they will come after you.

Peace

Suit Calls Coach and Doctors Negligent in Gathers's Death - NYTimes.com

Seems the team doctors and trainer who was trained a defib present specifically for this occurrence somehow decided NOT to administer. Sounds like negligence to me. Doesn't sound like interference from bystanders or non-team personnel.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Suit Calls Coach and Doctors Negligent in Gathers's Death - NYTimes.com

Seems the team doctors and trainer who was trained a defib present specifically for this occurrence somehow decided NOT to administer. Sounds like negligence to me. Doesn't sound like interference from bystanders or non-team personnel.

My point was not about being negligent, but they sued a bunch of people that had nothing to do with the situation. Many of the lawsuits were dropped as many are when the courts realize the person you sued had nothing to do with the action, but being sued means you have defend yourself in court for a period of time even if you are totally not responsible for what you are being sued for. And just imagine if you as an official get involved and you claim to have some background on the spot? What do you think might happen if the person dies or is harmed even more? You think they are going to care if you refused to do something or not?

Bottom line, stay in your lane. This is ultimately on the schools or the facility to have the proper medical people. If they don't, then hope those know what they are doing, but stay out of it personally.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My point was not about being negligent, but they sued a bunch of people that had nothing to do with the situation. Many of the lawsuits were dropped as many are when the courts realize the person you sued had nothing to do with the action, but being sued means you have defend yourself in court for a period of time even if you are totally not responsible for what you are being sued for. And just imagine if you as an official get involved and you claim to have some background on the spot? What do you think might happen if the person dies or is harmed even more? You think they are going to care if you refused to do something or not?

Bottom line, stay in your lane. This is ultimately on the schools or the facility to have the proper medical people. If they don't, then hope those know what they are doing, but stay out of it personally.

Peace

You're right that if someone is hurt bad enough everyone will be named. If you are named, in Illinois at least, you are covered by a $1,000,000 liability policy. If you are ever named, turn it into the insurance company. They must defend you. You are also right that you would be dismissed out of the case when they figure out what happened….UNLESS you tried to play doctor when your not a doctor and caused harm. It is extremely difficult for a referee to lose a case when he "stays in his lane" as J says. Bad calls cost Johnny scholarship--case tossed out. Bad calls lead to rough play and A1 gets hurt--case tossed out.

When we stay in our lane we won't lose a case unless what we do is damn close to intentionally injuring a person. Providing medical care is not within referee duties--not in our lane. If you do that, do it wrong and player is made worse, you lose even though you were just trying to help.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You're right that if someone is hurt bad enough everyone will be named. If you are named, in Illinois at least, you are covered by a $1,000,000 liability policy. If you are ever named, turn it into the insurance company. They must defend you. You are also right that you would be dismissed out of the case when they figure out what happened….UNLESS you tried to play doctor when your not a doctor and caused harm. It is extremely difficult for a referee to lose a case when he "stays in his lane" as J says. Bad calls cost Johnny scholarship--case tossed out. Bad calls lead to rough play and A1 gets hurt--case tossed out.

When we stay in our lane we won't lose a case unless what we do is damn close to intentionally injuring a person. Providing medical care is not within referee duties--not in our lane. If you do that, do it wrong and player is made worse, you lose even though you were just trying to help.

This is not a true blanket statement. The general basis of all Good Samaritan Laws is to "offer legal protection to people who give reasonable [emphasis added] assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril or otherwise incapacitated." The specifics of these laws vary from state to state.

For example, in Texas (at least during my last first aid/CPR class) we were told you should ask something along the lines of "I have some first aid training, can I try to help?" There are, again at least in Texas, circumstances where permission is implied.

All that said...if it isn't life threatening I am not getting involved. In fact, I am moving to the other side/end of the floor to avoid interaction with a hissed off coach and/or parent. Nothing good comes from those situations.

[Mark Padgett]

Back in 2012, our local kids rec league got an agreement from our fire district to provide CPR training to all our refs and coaches (including assistant coaches). We did this in one of the middle school gyms and spread the classes out (limited the number of people in each class) over about a 3 week interval prior to the beginning of the next season. We got written up in the local paper for doing this. The media especially liked that fact that our league was paying for everything.