How many of you have medical training?

[Josh1993]

Hello all. We had an incident last night that prompted me to come to you for advice:
Officiating a middle school boys basketball game. Wednesday night game so very few fans in the stands. One of the visiting players falls hard and is very hesitant to get up. He is holding his arm and in a lot of pain.

I'm pretty young, and the home coach is also a college student. So the visiting coach took control of the situation and asked, "Is there a trainer here? Do you guys (the home team) have a trainer here?" They didn't.

Luckily, one of the dads came out of the bleachers and announced that he is a firefighter. He took the kid and helped him to the bench and the school custodian found an ice pack. We found out after the game that the kid was more scared and shaken up than anything.

It got me to thinking... do any of you have medical training? Would you take the training if it were offered to you?

Thank you for your advice!

[JRutledge]

I do not have medical training and as an official I think we need to not get involved from the point of view. That is on the school or the program to provide medical personnel whether it be a trainer or doctor. You get involved in this you will bring on bigger issues as an official. Stay out of this if you put on the stripes.

Peace

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not have medical training and as an official I think we need to not get involved from the point of view. That is on the school or the program to provide medical personnel whether it be a trainer or doctor. You get involved in this you will bring on bigger issues as an official. Stay out of this if you put on the stripes.

Peace

Agree. The only time I would step in is a life and death type situation in which no one else knows what to do. But outside of that, others can figure that stuff out-

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

By medical training I presume that you mean one of the following categories:

1) Medical Doctor

2) Registered Nurse

3) Athletic Trainer

4) Emergency Medical Technician

5) Fire Fighter or Police Officer with appropriate EMT training.

I know that in our brother/sisterhood of officials we have people that fall into one of the five categories listed above. And while we as officials are not to get involved in the medical care of an injured player, I would presume that for people in the listed categories they have an ethical, professional, and in some states a legal obligation to provide the appropriate assistance. And I have no problem with that and I would expect them to provide that assistance due to their training and profession.

MTD, Sr.

[DrPete]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

..... as an official I think we need to not get involved from the point of view. That is on the school or the program to provide medical personnel whether it be a trainer or doctor. You get involved in this you will bring on bigger issues as an official. Stay out of this if you put on the stripes.

Peace

I agree with the above statement. I'm not a "real doctor" (just a dentist), but sometimes at a smaller school, or in rec play, there is no trainer or other qualified medical person available, so I will step in as the only "go to guy". I am somewhat protected by "Good Samaritan" laws because I am a medical professional. However, proceed with caution as you don't want to further complicate an injury, especially a head/neck trauma. For concussion management, if I have any doubts, then that player is out.

For someone without any medical training, I would just steer clear.

[pizanno]

Agree that officials should not step forward to administer first aid, but don't let that prevent you from being CPR trained for life-threatening situations on or off-the-court.

I renewed my training recently, and the big takeaway was emergencies happen everywhere and at any time, particularly in your own home or office. Being prepared to sustain a loved one until paramedics arrive is worth the six-hour training.

Training includes understanding complex good Samaritan laws and negligence if you are in a position of authority. Especially relevant if officiating in small school or rec situations where resources might be slim or none.

For more info:
CPR, First Aid and AED Certification | Red Cross

Might even make for a productive association activity. Be safe out there...

[Altor]

The only medical training I have is the NFHS Concussion course and my local Red Cross CPR course. So, if I identify the symptoms of a concussion, I will direct the athlete out of the contest. And if somebody's heart is not beating, I will administer emergency compressions/breaths as needed, assuming somebody more qualified than me is not available.

Otherwise, I will assist by calling for a trainer/doctor/etc and then I tend to stand well away from the area as I will likely only be in the way.

[Adam]

Unless it's something calling for CPR, I'm not getting involved. No, I would not take medical training if it was offered. My time is too valuable, and they're not going to pay me extra to work games if I get my EMT certificate.

[Josh1993]

Thank you for the insightful answers. I'm very glad that the visiting coach took control.

Sure seems like a lot can go wrong at these games...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Josh1993

Thank you for the insightful answers. I'm very glad that the visiting coach took control.

Sure seems like a lot can go wrong at these games...

When Hank Gathers died on the floor in the late 80s, the family sued every doctor or medical personnel that was present. If anything goes wrong or you interfere in any way, they will come after you.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Back in 2012, our local kids rec league got an agreement from our fire district to provide CPR training to all our refs and coaches (including assistant coaches). We did this in one of the middle school gyms and spread the classes out (limited the number of people in each class) over about a 3 week interval prior to the beginning of the next season. We got written up in the local paper for doing this. The media especially liked that fact that our league was paying for everything.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When Hank Gathers died on the floor in the late 80s, the family sued every doctor or medical personnel that was present. If anything goes wrong or you interfere in any way, they will come after you.

Peace

Suit Calls Coach and Doctors Negligent in Gathers's Death - NYTimes.com

Seems the team doctors and trainer who was trained a defib present specifically for this occurrence somehow decided NOT to administer. Sounds like negligence to me. Doesn't sound like interference from bystanders or non-team personnel.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Adam

Unless it's something calling for CPR, I'm not getting involved. No, I would not take medical training if it was offered. My time is too valuable, and they're not going to pay me extra to work games if I get my EMT certificate.

Well, since you shouldn't perform CPR unless there is no pulse and the patient is not breathing you are probably safe. Since no pulse and breath means the person is DEAD. Can't really make the condition worse.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Suit Calls Coach and Doctors Negligent in Gathers's Death - NYTimes.com

Seems the team doctors and trainer who was trained a defib present specifically for this occurrence somehow decided NOT to administer. Sounds like negligence to me. Doesn't sound like interference from bystanders or non-team personnel.

My point was not about being negligent, but they sued a bunch of people that had nothing to do with the situation. Many of the lawsuits were dropped as many are when the courts realize the person you sued had nothing to do with the action, but being sued means you have defend yourself in court for a period of time even if you are totally not responsible for what you are being sued for. And just imagine if you as an official get involved and you claim to have some background on the spot? What do you think might happen if the person dies or is harmed even more? You think they are going to care if you refused to do something or not?

Bottom line, stay in your lane. This is ultimately on the schools or the facility to have the proper medical people. If they don't, then hope those know what they are doing, but stay out of it personally.

Peace

[biggravy]

20 year paramedic. When someone gets hurt I cringe and start looking around for the "hero" coming out of the stands to save the day because I DO NOT want to get involved. That being said, most of the coaches by now are aware what I do for a living. My approach is to be where I can see what is going on, but let the coaches and hopefully the ATC on site handle things. ONLY in an apparent life threatening event (baseball game, commotio cordis... basketball game Hank Gathers type situation) will I willingly get involved.

My recommendation for non-medically trained officials would be to let the coaches and staff handle things.

Speaking of Hank Gathers, I use the video of his collapse and lack of treatment in a lecture I give at EMS conferences and to various EMS groups. I also work it in to my CPR training for laypersons. One of the biggest factors that hinders immediate CPR and treatment in sudden cardiac arrest is lack of recognition and thus treatment. Many times, sudden cardiac arrest may look like a seizure. In the Gathers situation the widely accepted theory is his initial collapse was from a life threatening arrythmia. He essentially converted back into a perfusing rhythm when he hit the floor thus the spontaneous movement seen on the tape. He then arrested again (his heart stopped). He was treated as though he suffered syncope (fainting) or a seizure. The jist of the lawsuits is that none of the medical personnel recognized cardiac arrest until several minutes AFTER he was carried to the locker room.

Last thing and I'll crawl back under my rock- Have you heard or seen about young athletes suddenly who die suddenly in practice or games? Google "Hypertrophic Obstructive Cardiomyopathy" and google "commotio cordis". If you are involved with an athlete who "faints" and a coach does not treat it serious, PLEASE treat this like a concussion situation and take it serious.

Ok one more thing- check out this article...

CPR AED cardiopulmonary resuscitation defibrillator first aid Nurse, EMT, Firefighter Cop Save Referee at Basketball Game | First Aid Corps