Foul count

[crosscountry55]

27-21? Gimme a break, John!

Personally, I wouldn't say I'm oblivious to foul counts in my games. I think that would be irresponsible. But I only become concerned when the differential is about 4 or more at any point in a given half. Perception is reality, so I take a more objective look at how we as a crew are looking at both teams' styles. But that's not to "bring the count back in line." It's more so to make sure our calls are defendable. Some teams hack a lot, and some are very light on defense. It is what it is.

Said another way: Foul count is of import solely in the context of game management.


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[Dad]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

27-21? Gimme a break, John!

Personally, I wouldn't say I'm oblivious to foul counts in my games. I think that would be irresponsible. But I only become concerned when the differential is about 4 or more at any point in a given half. Perception is reality, so I take a more objective look at how we as a crew are looking at both teams' styles. But that's not to "bring the count back in line." It's more so to make sure our calls are defendable. Some teams hack a lot, and some are very light on defense. It is what it is.

Said another way: Foul count is of import solely in the context of game management.


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I'm not saying you do this, but I hate this philosophy aspect of game management. So many times I've seen white has one foul and black has eight fouls. Next thing you know an official is calling a couple fouls on white they never would've made otherwise and are potentially not even fouls to begin with.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm not saying you do this, but I hate this philosophy aspect of game management. So many times I've seen white has one foul and black has eight fouls. Next thing you know an official is calling a couple fouls on white they never would've made otherwise and are potentially not even fouls to begin with.

I won't make things up when the foul count is 8-1, but I'd better not miss one against the team that has 1.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rich

i won't make things up when the foul count is 8-1, but i'd better not miss one against the team that has 1.

^^^^^^^this

[BDevil15]

As a coach I can honestly say I never let a foul count difference bother me much. We play very aggressive man and most teams we play sit in a 2-3 zone so we often have double the foul count of our opponents. But last week in a game we were cruising in we happened to have a favorable foul count for some reason. With 30 seconds to go in the half my Point guard picked up 2 fouls in 6 seconds and I agreed with both calls, but while heading to the locker room I was behind the officials and they obviously didn't see me coming because I heard the official who hadn't made either call joking "way to even out the foul count partner". Which I looked at as he was just kidding, but at the same time, when that thought is in your head at all then its possible that you have subconsciously done this at one time or another. In a close game giving a foul or two to a player to help your "game management" can make a huge difference.

Didn't really add much to the discussion but figured I'd share since it was something that happened this past week and was relevant to the discussion.

[Nevadaref]

Your story is exactly why I advise officials to keep their mouths shut until reaching the lockerroom with the door closed. Better yet, wait until you meet somewhere away from the school after the game.

I constantly observe officials wanting to talk about plays or situations when it isn't appropriate and they just get themselves into trouble.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your story is exactly why I advise officials to keep their mouths shut until reaching the lockerroom with the door closed. Better yet, wait until you meet somewhere away from the school after the game.

I constantly observe officials wanting to talk about plays or situations when it isn't appropriate and they just get themselves into trouble.

Worked a game on Friday and had one of my partners (1st time working with him) do exactly this several times through out game. He hadn't had this team or coach before. I saw he talking to this coach during a set of free throws. Then coach laughed and said "now your are just embarrasing yourself". Exchange was obviously about his call.....

After game I offered that sometimes less is more.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rich

I won't make things up when the foul count is 8-1, but I'd better not miss one against the team that has 1.

My goal every game is to not miss a call, regardless of the foul count at any point. Whether I succeed or not is another matter entirely.

Too many times I've seen the team with 8 fouls get away with something they shouldn't have, or the team with 1 foul getting a phantom foul because, 'well it looked like there couldn't been xyz and no one will complain with the foul count.'

Personally, I'd just rather not worry about it and have any chance of me disadvantaging the team playing better defense, which I'd probably do even if I didn't want to admit it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dad

My goal every game is to not miss a call, regardless of the foul count at any point. Whether I succeed or not is another matter entirely.

Too many times I've seen the team with 8 fouls get away with something they shouldn't have, or the team with 1 foul getting a phantom foul because, 'well it looked like there couldn't been xyz and no one will complain with the foul count.'

Personally, I'd just rather not worry about it and have any chance of me disadvantaging the team playing better defense, which I'd probably do even if I didn't want to admit it.

Eh, there's "pie in the sky" officiating and then there's the real world.

Same thing goes when a team's down 40 and there's a 50/50 call -- whether a foul or an out of bounds call. Likely puts a thumb on the scale. Some people would call that terrible - I just call it common sense.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Eh, there's "pie in the sky" officiating and then there's the real world.

Same thing goes when a team's down 40 and there's a 50/50 call -- whether a foul or an out of bounds call. Likely puts a thumb on the scale. Some people would call that terrible - I just call it common sense.

I'm not seeing how the two correlate. I agree it is common sense and wouldn't call it terrible. In a blowout one team has, for the most part, no chance of winning.

The scenarios I usually see an obvious difference in fouls are in a close game where one team is vastly more aggressive. Personally, if I were to think about the foul count I may give the aggressive team an advantage by not calling a foul on them or calling a foul on the other team I normally wouldn't.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Rich

I won't make things up when the foul count is 8-1, but I'd better not miss one against the team that has 1.

+1

Fair doesn't always mean equal.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by j51969

+1

Fair doesn't always mean equal.

True.

Fair is where you go to ride the merry-go-round and eat cotton candy.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm not saying you do this, but I hate this philosophy aspect of game management. So many times I've seen white has one foul and black has eight fouls. Next thing you know an official is calling a couple fouls on white they never would've made otherwise and are potentially not even fouls to begin with.

I agree. This speaks to the "art" of officiating. There is a difference between calling what you otherwise wouldn't have, versus striving to be more aware of things you might not be seeing or observing as well as you could be.


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