Thanks Jay

Pantherdreams · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 27, 2016, 08:48pm

I didn't see the game. I didn't see the play.

All I know is this authoritative assessment was the first thing on my newsfeed tonight.

Jay Bilas ‏@JayBilas 2m2 minutes ago
HORRIBLE charge call on Jalen Jones. It was a secondary defender, not in legal guarding position, in the restricted area. HORRIBLE CALL.

Welpe · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 28, 2016, 01:02am

Typical night at the office for Bilas.

Nevadaref · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 28, 2016, 02:45am

Did the offensive player extend an arm or knee into the defender? If so, the RA is not relevant.

JetMetFan · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 28, 2016, 05:54am

I just watched the play (3:54 of the 2nd half for those interested) and - while Jay Bilas may be annoying - he may be right. I say may because I'm not sure of the NCAAM interp on this particular play.

The defender in question switched to cover Jones and was on the RA when contact took place. The only issue is no one was guarding Jones before the defender switched so I don't know whether under the NCAAM code he's considered secondary.

As an FYI, the play in question under the NCAAW code would be a PC because Jones received the ball in the LDB.

Raymond · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I just watched the play (3:54 of the 2nd half for those interested) and - while Jay Bilas may be annoying - he may be right. I say may because I'm not sure of the NCAAM interp on this particular play.

The defender in question switched to cover Jones and was on the RA when contact took place. The only issue is no one was guarding Jones before the defender switched so I don't know whether under the NCAAM code he's considered secondary.

As an FYI, the play in question under the NCAAW code would be a PC because Jones received the ball in the LDB.

Haven't seen the play, but I had something similar Saturday. Defense was playing a trapping zone and somehow left the opposing team's best player unaccounted for on the baseline. He received a long pass from way above the 3-point line. Someone slid over to take a charge in the RA. I did not consider that person his primary defender because no one was playing any type of defense on him prior to him receiving the pass. (And for the record, he received the pass just outside of the Women's LDB.

wildcatter · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 28, 2016, 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The defender in question switched to cover Jones and was on the RA when contact took place. The only issue is no one was guarding Jones before the defender switched so I don't know whether under the NCAAM code he's considered secondary.

I looked at the video last night (on WatchESPN - can't find anything on espn.com) and wondered the same thing - Arkansas was playing their press/zone and Jones sort of got lost in it. Though to me, that means he beat his primary defender since the defender near the basket switched off another player to look to take a charge.

There's a case play similar to a player not being guarded in a zone:

A.R. 97. Team B is in a zone defense. A1, who is located on the perimeter of Team B’s zone, passes the ball to A2. A1 then cuts behind B1, who is the defender at the top of the zone, and receives a pass from A2 while just outside the restricted area. After receiving the pass, A1 then crashes into the torso of defender B2 who has established initial guarding position inside the restricted area. The Lead official calls a blocking foul on B2.

RULING: The official is correct. B2 is a secondary defender because A1 is deemed to have beaten B1 when he cut behind B1 on the perimeter of the zone defense. As a secondary defender, B2 may not establish an initial legal guarding position in the restricted area for the purpose of drawing a player control/charging foul when defending a player who is in control of the ball or has released the ball on a pass or try.

I also think the L missed that one. There was another charge with 1:00 to go on Caruso that ESPN writers, broadcasters ("I think that his feet were moving"), and Bilas were complaining about. I thought the refs got it right on that one.

As an aside - just want to say thanks JetMetFan for doing all your video posts. I really appreciate how you label each one, and then slow it down for the call. Can I ask what you use to capture and edit the video?

JetMetFan · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:04am

Here's the play...

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:47am

Looks like an RA block. I wonder if he considered this player a primary defender? That is the only explanation for that call.

Peace

bob jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:34am

Agreed with JRut. I also wonder why another official didn't come in with RA information.

MechanicGuy · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:02am

Can a player be the primary defender on two different offensive players? If not then he is unquestionably a secondary defender.

Camron Rust · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Can a player be the primary defender on two different offensive players? If not then he is unquestionably a secondary defender.

I don't see why not. The primary/secondary is with reference to the offensive player and who is in position to defend him/her.

Dad · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Looks like an RA block. I wonder if he considered this player a primary defender? That is the only explanation for that call.

Peace

He was the only player in position to have a chance at guarding him.

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad

He was the only player in position to have a chance at guarding him.

The definition of a secondary defender is:

"....is a teammate who has helped a primary defender after the player has been beaten by an opponent because he failed to establish or maintain a guarding position. A defensive player is beaten when the offensive player's head and shoulders get past the defender."

It looks to me like he is a secondary defender. At least that is my understanding by normal practice.

Peace

johnny d · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:11pm

The defender was a secondary defender. The reason he missed the call is simple. He did not realize the defender was in the RA. The C is more responsible for this mistake than the L. The C has to be engaged, and then bring the information to the L.

johnny d · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't see why not. The primary/secondary is with reference to the offensive player and who is in position to defender him/her.

This is not possible. You can only be the primary defender on one offensive player. It might not be spelled out as so in the rules, but it is certainly implied based on the rulings about secondary defenders and the RA when the defense is playing zone and also on out numbered fast breaks.