Thanks Jay

JRutledge · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:47am

Looks like an RA block. I wonder if he considered this player a primary defender? That is the only explanation for that call.

Peace

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:34am

Agreed with JRut. I also wonder why another official didn't come in with RA information.

MechanicGuy · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:02am

Can a player be the primary defender on two different offensive players? If not then he is unquestionably a secondary defender.

Camron Rust · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Can a player be the primary defender on two different offensive players? If not then he is unquestionably a secondary defender.

I don't see why not. The primary/secondary is with reference to the offensive player and who is in position to defend him/her.

johnny d · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't see why not. The primary/secondary is with reference to the offensive player and who is in position to defender him/her.

This is not possible. You can only be the primary defender on one offensive player. It might not be spelled out as so in the rules, but it is certainly implied based on the rulings about secondary defenders and the RA when the defense is playing zone and also on out numbered fast breaks.

BigCat · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:44pm

Fast breaks and double teams of the low post aside, you must have a primary defender before the player in the arc becomes a secondary defender. The case plays show that a player has to go past/beat one defender before the player setting up inside the arc is called a secondary defender. AR 95 is the zone play. Offensive player is on outside of zone, runs past B1 and alley oop thrown to him. B2 sets up inside the arc and the crash occurs after the offensive player catches the pass. Block because of RA. Play says when offensive player ran past B1 that made B2 the secondary defender.

As far as the question about whether a player can be a primary defender on two offensive players---I believe it is possible however, there' only going to be one crash. In the example above I gave, if two players are standing on the perimeter of the zone and both of them run past B1, either one of them could catch the alley oop and if B2 is in restricted area when crash occurs he would be considered secondary defender. The offensive players ran past B1 making B2 the secondary defender of whichever one caught the ball. Rare but I think possible.

In this play in video the player didn't appear to run past anyone, he caught the ball and no one was between him and the goal. The defender helped, no doubt, but unless there was a primary defender at some point before, the player in the arc does not become secondary IMO. The player was clearly in the arc. I'm guessing he called the charge because he determined the defender wasn't a secondary defender.

Johhny may have access to more plays that prove I'm wrong. I'm just reading the rules and the current case plays. Havnt seen any special videos on it. I'd be interested to know if there are any others Johnny or if there was an interpretation on this play. Thx.

johnny d · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:41pm

On the play in the video, 5 white is the primary defender. Even if he wasn't, the defender that tried to take the charge was a weak side defender who was guarding another player. He is therefore a secondary defender.

As a point of clarification, in an out-numbered fast break, all defenders are secondary defenders. It does not matter if the offensive player beats another defender or not.

Anytime a perimeter offensive player moves inside the perimeter zone defenders, he is considered to have beaten them, even if none of them were specifically guarding him at the time. When an interior defender or a weak side defender establish initial guarding position inside the RA, they are considered secondary defenders.

When Adams was the coordinator of officials, there were numerous examples of plays similar to the one posted here. In every case, the defender that moved from guarding one offensive player to another was considered a secondary defender.

Finally, I asked 15 other officials currently working D1 men's basketball if they can think of any situation where a defensive player could be the primary defender on more than one player. Every one of them said it was not possible and would not be adjudicated that way by them or anyone they knew. And yes, I know the sample size is very small.

Camron Rust · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is not possible. You can only be the primary defender on one offensive player. It might not be spelled out as so in the rules, but it is certainly implied based on the rulings about secondary defenders and the RA when the defense is playing zone and also on out numbered fast breaks.

Maybe, maybe not. But this player was in position to be declared the primary defender. He was between the offensive player and the basket the entire time. He didn't rotate over to get there. I think it is likely that he was just briefly screened off staying with the player he was guarding then got free of the screen. If we had more of the clip, I think we'd see the offensive player cutting under the basket with him following the entire way until he hit the screen. Then the offensive player got the ball and reversed into him. Thus, making him the primary defender all along. On top of that, it wouldn't be the kind of play the RA was intended to apply to.

Dad · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Looks like an RA block. I wonder if he considered this player a primary defender? That is the only explanation for that call.

Peace

He was the only player in position to have a chance at guarding him.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad

He was the only player in position to have a chance at guarding him.

The definition of a secondary defender is:

"....is a teammate who has helped a primary defender after the player has been beaten by an opponent because he failed to establish or maintain a guarding position. A defensive player is beaten when the offensive player's head and shoulders get past the defender."

It looks to me like he is a secondary defender. At least that is my understanding by normal practice.

Peace

johnny d · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 30, 2016, 07:11pm

The defender was a secondary defender. The reason he missed the call is simple. He did not realize the defender was in the RA. The C is more responsible for this mistake than the L. The C has to be engaged, and then bring the information to the L.