Shooting Technical

[benbret]

NFHS Rules. 3 part question. During second quarter team A player 1 receives a T for baiting an opponent. B6 comes into the game to shoot the free throws and B1 goes out of the game. B6 misses the first free throw and B7 comes in for B6 to shoot the second free throw. Can B1 then return and replace B7 without the ball becoming alive or does B1 have to set out at least 1 tick of the clock?

#2 Can B6 and B7 shoot the free throws without a member of team B being replaced? (Have 6 players on the floor)

#3 During warm ups, A1 is charged a T for dunking. A member of Team B can shoot the free throws, but does one of the starting 5 for team B have to sit out the throw in at half court by team B? Can you provide the rule?

[bob jenkins]

1) B1 still must sit (and, now, so must B6)
2) No, only five players at a time
3) Yes, someone must sit out. It's a substitution, so the same rule as always applies.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by benbret

NFHS Rules. 3 part question. During second quarter team A player 1 receives a T for baiting an opponent. B6 comes into the game to shoot the free throws and B1 goes out of the game. B6 misses the first free throw and B7 comes in for B6 to shoot the second free throw. Can B1 then return and replace B7 without the ball becoming alive or does B1 have to set out at least 1 tick of the clock?

#2 Can B6 and B7 shoot the free throws without a member of team B being replaced? (Have 6 players on the floor)

#3 During warm ups, A1 is charged a T for dunking. A member of Team B can shoot the free throws, but does one of the starting 5 for team B have to sit out the throw in at half court by team B? Can you provide the rule?

1. No, once a player is subbed out they cannot re-enter until the clock has been legally started
2. Are 6 players every allowed? What is the penalty for 6 players? And why in the heck would you think its ok?
3. Since there is a T before the start of the game then the coach is allowed to have any player shoot the T's - there is no "sit a tick" requirement here see 3-2-2a.

[JRutledge]

Any sub that comes out the game has to sit at least a tick off the clock before re-entering the game. The ball being live or not has no bearing on this issue.

Anyone can shoot a T FT as long as they are eligible to play in the game.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Any sub that comes out the game has to sit at least a tick off the clock before re-entering the game. The ball being live or not has no bearing on this issue.

Anyone can shoot a T FT as long as they are eligible to play in the game.

Peace

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) B1 still must sit (and, now, so must B6)
2) No, only five players at a time
3) Yes, someone must sit out. It's a substitution, so the same rule as always applies.

For the third part 3-2-2a would disagree with your answer. The HC is allowed to change his designated starters due to a technical foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

1. No, once a player is subbed out they cannot re-enter until the clock has been legally started
2. Are 6 players every allowed? What is the penalty for 6 players? And why in the heck would you think its ok?
3. Since there is a T before the start of the game then the coach is allowed to have any player shoot the T's - there is no "sit a tick" requirement here see 3-2-2a.

You are wrong about part three. This exact scenario was in the NFHS Simplified & Illustrated book a few years ago and has been posted on this forum several times. The answers provided by Bob Jenkins are correct.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

For the third part 3-2-2a would disagree with your answer. The HC is allowed to change his designated starters due to a technical foul.

One of us is misreading the play / question / answers.

A sub (B6) can come in for any of the starters (B1-B5) to shoot the FT(s).

Whoever goes out must stay out through the completion of the ensuing throwin (let's not complicate this with a subsequent foul / violation, etc).

B6 could shoot the FTs and then be replaced by B7 -- B6 would then also have to remain out until the completion of the ensuing throwin

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

For the third part 3-2-2a would disagree with your answer. The HC is allowed to change his designated starters due to a technical foul.

Yes, he is allowed to change the starter, but the NFHS has ruled that the team members involved in the switch will be subject to the substitution rules.
Consult your Case Book before you tell Bob that's he's incorrect.

One used to have to find this in the Simplified & Illustrated book, but this ruling was actually put into the Case Book in 2008-09 as 8.3

8.3 SITUATION:
A technical foul is issued prior to the start of the game and the
game begins with free throws. Non-starter, A6, is brought in to the game to attempt
the free throws and replaces starter A5. RULING: Legal substitute. The ball
becomes live to start the game when placed at A6’s disposal. A6 and A5 are subject
to proper substitution rules. A5 may not re-enter until the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been properly started. (3-2-2a; 3-3-4)

[deecee]

3-2-2

After the 10 minute time limit specified in article 1, a team is charged with a maximum of one t foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed (see 10-1-2 penalty);
a. changing a designated starter, unless necessitates by illness, injury, illegal equipment or apparel, etc., or to attempt a technical foul free throw.

is there a reference to where this person must sit? because changing a designated starter would imply just that. A new set of 5 players are starting the game and anyone on the bench is allowed to be subbed in when the FT's are completed.

EDIT: I posted this before Nevada's citation. thank you.

[Raymond]

Had a game where one of the starters dunked in warm-ups. Coach (former official) was pissed and wanted to punish him by not letting him start. Told him he could sub him out after the free throws.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

EDIT: I posted this before Nevada's citation. thank you.

You're welcome. Now say, "Always listen to Bob" ten times.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You're welcome. Now say, "Always listen to Bob" ten times.

I thought I got him. But the rule as written is a bit misleading as written.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I thought I got him. But the rule as written is a bit misleading as written.

I do not think it is misleading. You looked at this rule and stopped reading or researching. You are not changing a starter because you are allowing anyone properly to shoot a technical foul. You are applying the rule that allows anyone to shoot a technical foul.

Look at 8-3 that makes it clear anyone can shoot a free throw for a technical.

And this is also listed in 8.3 in the casebook, the exact example of this OP question.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think it is misleading. You looked at this rule and stopped reading or researching. You are not changing a starter because you are allowing anyone properly to shoot a technical foul. You are applying the rule that allows anyone to shoot a technical foul.

Look at 8-3 that makes it clear anyone can shoot a free throw for a technical.

And this is also listed in 8.3 in the casebook, the exact example of this OP question.

Peace

The sentence "changing a designated starter" implies exactly what it does. I do not disagree that we are applying the rule that allows anyone to shoot a T. In this case the wording is very succinct in that we can change one of the starters. This would mean that the player sent in to shoot the T is now considered a starter.

I didn't think the wording was ambiguous or needed more research until Nevada brought up the case play because to me that sentence pretty much spells out what can be done.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

The sentence "changing a designated starter" implies exactly what it does. I do not disagree that we are applying the rule that allows anyone to shoot a T. In this case the wording is very succinct in that we can change one of the starters. This would mean that the player sent in to shoot the T is now considered a starter.

I didn't think the wording was ambiguous or needed more research until Nevada brought up the case play because to me that sentence pretty much spells out what can be done.

You are not changing a starter. You are invoking a rule that allows you to use anyone to shoot the technical foul shots. There is no exception to that rule either, which would be needed if you are going to prevent them from using that player to shoot a FT.

My understanding is a designated starter is someone you list in the book. If you do not change the starter, what you are allowed to do does not apply. Just like if a player got injured or sick, I hope you are not preventing them to have a sub if that is clearly the case?

Peace