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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:42am
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I agree with what Rich said regarding the fact that to many officials incorrectly DO NOT award shooting fouls when they should.

Also from what you have posted I would suggest you brush up on what defines a shot and continuous motion. Taking a step does not negate a shot attempt after a foul.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:56am
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Did B1's drive to the bucket originate in your primary as the T? Your post seems to imply that it did.

Regardless, I think you handled it well. All you can do is ask your partner what he had and listen to his response, and move on. There is learning in that exercise alone, even if a discussion doesn't ensue.

Do you get game films through HUDL? Film review is an outstanding tool.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #olderthanilook View Post
Did B1's drive to the bucket originate in your primary as the T? Your post seems to imply that it did.

Regardless, I think you handled it well. All you can do is ask your partner what he had and listen to his response, and move on. There is learning in that exercise alone, even if a discussion doesn't ensue.

Do you get game films through HUDL? Film review is an outstanding tool.
Yes the drive did originate from my primary.

No game films through HUDL.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts View Post
Boys Varsity game.. 4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

Visiting player drives to the basket and the lead calls a foul and counts the bucket. I'm the trail and didn't have a foul call as I had incidental contact. I'm not concerned on the foul call and whether or not it was a foul but the lead counts the bucket. The contact that I saw was certainly before the shot. He had already signaled and counted the bucket.

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.
This doesn't matter. And I do hope the home coach didn't know you disagreed with the call.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
This doesn't matter. And I do hope the home coach didn't know you disagreed with the call.
Of course not, we lined up and shot the free throw and moved on.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts View Post
Of course not, we lined up and shot the free throw and moved on.
Good!

Probably biased for HS but post season games you need officials votes, well, kinda, but they are important. I always ask in a way that says I didn't get a perfect look and want to know if I missed anything. For whatever reason it makes officials love you.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:29pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I think you handled it just fine. You asked your partner what he saw, he was sure about it, so let it go.

Even if he did miss the call, so what? We all miss calls.

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Well said. Not sure there is much you can do about when the guy making the call counts the basket.

You asked him about it and had a conversation. End of story. Best case scenario, it got him thinking that maybe he was wrong and he will do better next time.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:47pm
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It's hard being a good partner

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts View Post
After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.
You asked for input:

Remembering, on the court you are a team and protect each other! What if roles were reversed? In the locker room a partner asked a judgement question and a judgement answer was given. Share knowledge and agree to disagree then move on. Otherwise, the impression is that you are inflexible.

While on the court there might of been an opportunity to protect a partner with a simple comment to the coach, "I had the same call."

If you want a good partner, maybe start out by "being" a good partner?

Tough situation; compliments on not making public a disagreement.

Hope this helps.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:52pm
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I thought it was hard to be a bad partner. Hah.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutierrez7 View Post
You asked for input:

Remembering, on the court you are a team and protect each other! What if roles were reversed? In the locker room a partner asked a judgement question and a judgement answer was given. Share knowledge and agree to disagree then move on. Otherwise, the impression is that you are inflexible.

While on the court there might of been an opportunity to protect a partner with a simple comment to the coach, "I had the same call."

If you want a good partner, maybe start out by "being" a good partner?

Tough situation; compliments on not making public a disagreement.

Hope this helps.
It's helpful and i think some good concepts. I'm not sure I could have used them in this situation as I was opposite bench side and really didn't have a chance to communicate with the coach at that moment.

I also don't think I would want to tell the coach I had the same call if I didn't have a whistle. Maybe just a slight reword of it looked like a good call to me. Small difference in wording but back to your point of having your partners back can be helpful. I had a coach ask me last night about a travel and I gave him that response to back this same partner.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:10pm
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My $.02. I only ask my partner what they saw on a play IF

1. It was in my primary, I had a good look and passed OR
2. I see something really funky, usually in their primary and there is NO call

Other that that I don't care. I do get upset when a partner makes a call in my primary that is a marginal call that I may have passed on, especially since I always pre-game that we are responsible (1) for getting the calls right and (2) if we have to reach make sure its' one we have to get.

I also don't speak for my partner to a coach, and we pregame this as well. Unless I HAD the same call I never tell a coach that. IF he has a question about my partners call I instruct the coach to ask my partner the first opportunity he has. I hope my partners offer the same courtesy.

It's also a pet peeve when a partner makes a face at a call they may disagree with. I have worked with a couple guys that are such ball hawks I have had to actually make off ball calls in their primary while I have the ball in mine.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:12pm
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Trust your partners. If their judgement gets them into situations, let them handle it until they ask for help.

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."
- my mother
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 01:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutierrez7 View Post
You asked for input:

Remembering, on the court you are a team and protect each other! What if roles were reversed? In the locker room a partner asked a judgement question and a judgement answer was given. Share knowledge and agree to disagree then move on. Otherwise, the impression is that you are inflexible.

While on the court there might of been an opportunity to protect a partner with a simple comment to the coach, "I had the same call."

If you want a good partner, maybe start out by "being" a good partner?

Tough situation; compliments on not making public a disagreement.

Hope this helps.
I would not recommend lying to a coach. There are other ways to be a good partner. If you disagreed with the call (but, as if often the case, can do nothing about it) find something better to say. In the soccer context (I'm a soccer ref but merely a basketball dad), I've used things like, "coach, he's forty yards closer than you are and had a great angle." "Coach, he had a better look at that than either you or I did." "It's been called the same way all day." But I will never lie to a coach. Period. YMMV. (This also means I very rarely will say it was a good call -- I don't want a negative inference if I don't.)
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
My $.02. I only ask my partner what they saw on a play IF

1. It was in my primary, I had a good look and passed OR
2. I see something really funky, usually in their primary and there is NO call
Yep

The primary was definitely shared.

Question for the OP: did the crew pre-game that scenario?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts View Post
I'll be first to admit I don't follow the NBA closely so I don't know the actual rule but I believe the NBA continuation rule is different than high school...

Is it not?
Yes. The NBA rule is that continuation begins as the player exits the locker room.
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