And 1??

Raymond · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroberts

... The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.

The NBA rule is different than the NFHS rule?

Why are you disagreeing strongly with your partner about a judgment call he made? Give your opinion constructively and move on.

I wasn't there so I don't know what the contact was, but the most I would say is "do you think you could have passed on that contact considering the game situation?"

Rich · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:41am

All I'll say is this:

Too many officials put fouls "on the floor" when they should be calling fouls in the act of shooting. What coaches think about these situations means little to me.

Whether he should've passed on the foul is another question altogether. The score shouldn't dictate that, though. What's incidental in a tie game should be incidental in a 30 point game when it comes to protecting the shooter.

JetMetFan · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:47am

BNR beat me to it.

My main questions to ask my partner - or myself - would be:

*Did the call fit the game?
*Was the call needed?

The reason the home coach disagreed is he was catching a butt-whipping and you - meaning the crew not just your partner - gave the other team a +1 that he felt was iffy with under four minutes left in the game. If it was contact Stevie Wonder could see from the last row, go for it. If not, let the game die a natural death and the losing HC won't have anything to say.

mrroberts · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NBA rule is different than the NFHS rule?

Why are you disagreeing strongly with your partner about a judgment call he made? Give your opinion constructively and move on.

I wasn't there so I don't know what the contact was, but the most I would say is "do you think you could have passed on that contact considering the game situation?"

I'll be first to admit I don't follow the NBA closely so I don't know the actual rule but I believe the NBA continuation rule is different than high school...

Is it not?

Mark Padgett · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroberts

I'll be first to admit I don't follow the NBA closely so I don't know the actual rule but I believe the NBA continuation rule is different than high school...

Is it not?

Yes. The NBA rule is that continuation begins as the player exits the locker room.

so cal lurker · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Yes. The NBA rule is that continuation begins as the all star player exits the locker room.

Fixed it for ya!

More seriously, my sense has always been that the NBA applied "continuation" more generously than NCAA and especially than HS in games that I have watched. But I'm not sure how much of that is an actual difference and how much is perception and levels of athleticism. In HS, from the comfort of the stands, I share the view that someone expressed previously that far more errors are in not considering the act of shooting to have begun than vice versa.

deecee · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:17pm

The NBA is entertainment. Offense is entertainment. The one NBA camp I attended the clinicians made it clear that once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise. They would rather ERR on the side of shooting than not. Their threshold is COMPLETELY different from HS and NCAA.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee

The NBA is entertainment. Offense is entertainment. The one NBA camp I attended the clinicians made it clear that once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise. They would rather ERR on the side of shooting than not. Their threshold is COMPLETELY different from HS and NCAA.

It is? I have been told by former NBA officials or current NBA officials that the rule is applied pretty much the exact same way. The only issue is the NCAA started getting caught up in this "upward motion" language which basically is applied the same basic way as before but using different language.

Peace

deecee · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is? I have been told by former NBA officials or current NBA officials that the rule is applied pretty much the exact same way. The only issue is the NCAA started getting caught up in this "upward motion" language which basically is applied the same basic way as before but using different language.

Peace

The sentiment I received was from Scott Foster himself. The clinicians were all NBA officials.

bob jenkins · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 07:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee

once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise.

Even though NCAA and NFHS don't use the words "gather" (I don't think), the concept is pretty much the same.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NBA rule is different than the NFHS rule?

Why are you disagreeing strongly with your partner about a judgment call he made? Give your opinion constructively and move on.

I wasn't there so I don't know what the contact was, but the most I would say is "do you think you could have passed on that contact considering the game situation?"

I do not feel like poring through the NBA Rules Book this morning (too many things to do around the house) but if my memory serves me correct (and I am getting senile as I get old), while the wording is different from the language in the NFHS and NCAA Rules Books, the application is the same in all three rules codes.

I am sure that someone more versed in the NBA Rules will come along and enlighten us.

MTD, Sr.

Raymond · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroberts

Boys Varsity game.. 4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

Visiting player drives to the basket and the lead calls a foul and counts the bucket. I'm the trail and didn't have a foul call as I had incidental contact. I'm not concerned on the foul call and whether or not it was a foul but the lead counts the bucket. The contact that I saw was certainly before the shot. He had already signaled and counted the bucket.

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.

You do realize that originally you said you passed on the play b/c you thought it was incidental contact? So you disagreed with your partner's judgment twice on this play, whether it was even a foul and whether the contact occurred during the shooting motion.

What did your partner say in regards to why it was a foul and why it was in the act of shooting?

mrroberts · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You do realize that originally you said you passed on the play b/c you thought it was incidental contact? So you disagreed with your partner's judgment twice on this play, whether it was even a foul and whether the contact occurred during the shooting motion.

What did your partner say in regards to why it was a foul and why it was in the act of shooting?

Correct, but I wasn't so much concerned with the foul call as I was the awarding the basket to count. There was certainly some contact... I passed as I thought the offensive player created the contact but there really wasn't an advantage gained so I had a no call.

All he said was that he thought the player had started the shooting motion at the time the foul occurred. This was only the 2nd time I had worked with this gentleman. He explained what he felt he saw, I think I saw something different. Didn't figure we needed to go any further at that point.

At the time of the game, I had contemplated coming together with him to discuss the call. Sounds like I made the correct decision and letting it go.

bob jenkins · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroberts

All he said was that he thought the player had started the shooting motion at the time the foul occurred.

If his "thoughts" are correct, then he made the right call -- and he used the right logic.

Quote:

Sounds like I made the correct decision and letting it go.

That's true for almost all such calls.

Rich · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 20, 2016, 10:40am

Partners frequently have a different look.

Last night I had a blocked shot right in front of me. I had it clean up top. Trail did not, called a foul. I was pretty damned close to the play and did my best to get a good, open look.

Defensive coach right in front of the T said nothing to him. Nor to me.

I'm sure my partner was right. Drive came out of his primary and I'd have no problem with either one of us getting something on this play.

I really don't get into the business of evaluating my partner's calls during a game.