And 1??

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mrroberts

Boys Varsity game.. 4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

Visiting player drives to the basket and the lead calls a foul and counts the bucket. I'm the trail and didn't have a foul call as I had incidental contact. I'm not concerned on the foul call and whether or not it was a foul but the lead counts the bucket. The contact that I saw was certainly before the shot. He had already signaled and counted the bucket.

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.

You do realize that originally you said you passed on the play b/c you thought it was incidental contact? So you disagreed with your partner's judgment twice on this play, whether it was even a foul and whether the contact occurred during the shooting motion.

What did your partner say in regards to why it was a foul and why it was in the act of shooting?

[mrroberts]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You do realize that originally you said you passed on the play b/c you thought it was incidental contact? So you disagreed with your partner's judgment twice on this play, whether it was even a foul and whether the contact occurred during the shooting motion.

What did your partner say in regards to why it was a foul and why it was in the act of shooting?

Correct, but I wasn't so much concerned with the foul call as I was the awarding the basket to count. There was certainly some contact... I passed as I thought the offensive player created the contact but there really wasn't an advantage gained so I had a no call.

All he said was that he thought the player had started the shooting motion at the time the foul occurred. This was only the 2nd time I had worked with this gentleman. He explained what he felt he saw, I think I saw something different. Didn't figure we needed to go any further at that point.

At the time of the game, I had contemplated coming together with him to discuss the call. Sounds like I made the correct decision and letting it go.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mrroberts

All he said was that he thought the player had started the shooting motion at the time the foul occurred.

If his "thoughts" are correct, then he made the right call -- and he used the right logic.

Sounds like I made the correct decision and letting it go.

That's true for almost all such calls.

[Rich]

Partners frequently have a different look.

Last night I had a blocked shot right in front of me. I had it clean up top. Trail did not, called a foul. I was pretty damned close to the play and did my best to get a good, open look.

Defensive coach right in front of the T said nothing to him. Nor to me.

I'm sure my partner was right. Drive came out of his primary and I'd have no problem with either one of us getting something on this play.

I really don't get into the business of evaluating my partner's calls during a game.

[deecee]

I agree with what Rich said regarding the fact that to many officials incorrectly DO NOT award shooting fouls when they should.

Also from what you have posted I would suggest you brush up on what defines a shot and continuous motion. Taking a step does not negate a shot attempt after a foul.

[#olderthanilook]

Did B1's drive to the bucket originate in your primary as the T? Your post seems to imply that it did.

Regardless, I think you handled it well. All you can do is ask your partner what he had and listen to his response, and move on. There is learning in that exercise alone, even if a discussion doesn't ensue.

Do you get game films through HUDL? Film review is an outstanding tool.

[mrroberts]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Did B1's drive to the bucket originate in your primary as the T? Your post seems to imply that it did.

Regardless, I think you handled it well. All you can do is ask your partner what he had and listen to his response, and move on. There is learning in that exercise alone, even if a discussion doesn't ensue.

Do you get game films through HUDL? Film review is an outstanding tool.

Yes the drive did originate from my primary.

No game films through HUDL.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by mrroberts

Boys Varsity game.. 4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

Visiting player drives to the basket and the lead calls a foul and counts the bucket. I'm the trail and didn't have a foul call as I had incidental contact. I'm not concerned on the foul call and whether or not it was a foul but the lead counts the bucket. The contact that I saw was certainly before the shot. He had already signaled and counted the bucket.

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.

This doesn't matter. And I do hope the home coach didn't know you disagreed with the call.

[mrroberts]

Originally Posted by Dad

This doesn't matter. And I do hope the home coach didn't know you disagreed with the call.

Of course not, we lined up and shot the free throw and moved on.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by mrroberts

Of course not, we lined up and shot the free throw and moved on.

Good!

Probably biased for HS but post season games you need officials votes, well, kinda, but they are important. I always ask in a way that says I didn't get a perfect look and want to know if I missed anything. For whatever reason it makes officials love you.

[Gutierrez7]

Originally Posted by mrroberts

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

You asked for input:

Remembering, on the court you are a team and protect each other! What if roles were reversed? In the locker room a partner asked a judgement question and a judgement answer was given. Share knowledge and agree to disagree then move on. Otherwise, the impression is that you are inflexible.

While on the court there might of been an opportunity to protect a partner with a simple comment to the coach, "I had the same call."

If you want a good partner, maybe start out by "being" a good partner?

Tough situation; compliments on not making public a disagreement.

Hope this helps.

[Dad]

I thought it was hard to be a bad partner. Hah.

[deecee]

My $.02. I only ask my partner what they saw on a play IF

1. It was in my primary, I had a good look and passed OR
2. I see something really funky, usually in their primary and there is NO call

Other that that I don't care. I do get upset when a partner makes a call in my primary that is a marginal call that I may have passed on, especially since I always pre-game that we are responsible (1) for getting the calls right and (2) if we have to reach make sure its' one we have to get.

I also don't speak for my partner to a coach, and we pregame this as well. Unless I HAD the same call I never tell a coach that. IF he has a question about my partners call I instruct the coach to ask my partner the first opportunity he has. I hope my partners offer the same courtesy.

It's also a pet peeve when a partner makes a face at a call they may disagree with. I have worked with a couple guys that are such ball hawks I have had to actually make off ball calls in their primary while I have the ball in mine.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by deecee

My $.02. I only ask my partner what they saw on a play IF

1. It was in my primary, I had a good look and passed OR
2. I see something really funky, usually in their primary and there is NO call

Yep

The primary was definitely shared.

Question for the OP: did the crew pre-game that scenario?

[mrroberts]

Originally Posted by Gutierrez7

You asked for input:

Remembering, on the court you are a team and protect each other! What if roles were reversed? In the locker room a partner asked a judgement question and a judgement answer was given. Share knowledge and agree to disagree then move on. Otherwise, the impression is that you are inflexible.

While on the court there might of been an opportunity to protect a partner with a simple comment to the coach, "I had the same call."

If you want a good partner, maybe start out by "being" a good partner?

Tough situation; compliments on not making public a disagreement.

Hope this helps.

It's helpful and i think some good concepts. I'm not sure I could have used them in this situation as I was opposite bench side and really didn't have a chance to communicate with the coach at that moment.

I also don't think I would want to tell the coach I had the same call if I didn't have a whistle. Maybe just a slight reword of it looked like a good call to me. Small difference in wording but back to your point of having your partners back can be helpful. I had a coach ask me last night about a travel and I gave him that response to back this same partner.