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-   -   And 1?? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100721-1.html)

so cal lurker Wed Jan 20, 2016 05:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 977363)
Yes. The NBA rule is that continuation begins as the all star player exits the locker room. :rolleyes:
Fixed it for ya!

More seriously, my sense has always been that the NBA applied "continuation" more generously than NCAA and especially than HS in games that I have watched. But I'm not sure how much of that is an actual difference and how much is perception and levels of athleticism. In HS, from the comfort of the stands, I share the view that someone expressed previously that far more errors are in not considering the act of shooting to have begun than vice versa.

deecee Wed Jan 20, 2016 05:17pm
The NBA is entertainment. Offense is entertainment. The one NBA camp I attended the clinicians made it clear that once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise. They would rather ERR on the side of shooting than not. Their threshold is COMPLETELY different from HS and NCAA.

JRutledge Wed Jan 20, 2016 05:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 977377)
The NBA is entertainment. Offense is entertainment. The one NBA camp I attended the clinicians made it clear that once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise. They would rather ERR on the side of shooting than not. Their threshold is COMPLETELY different from HS and NCAA.
It is? I have been told by former NBA officials or current NBA officials that the rule is applied pretty much the exact same way. The only issue is the NCAA started getting caught up in this "upward motion" language which basically is applied the same basic way as before but using different language.

Peace

deecee Wed Jan 20, 2016 05:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 977378)
It is? I have been told by former NBA officials or current NBA officials that the rule is applied pretty much the exact same way. The only issue is the NCAA started getting caught up in this "upward motion" language which basically is applied the same basic way as before but using different language.

Peace
The sentiment I received was from Scott Foster himself. The clinicians were all NBA officials.

JRutledge Wed Jan 20, 2016 05:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 977379)
The sentiment I received was from Scott Foster himself. The clinicians were all NBA officials.
OK, but I was told by a former NBA official in my area (I am not giving his name) said that the rule is applied the same way. This person does some evaluation for the NBA currently. This person currently works high school and college games and talks all the time about the application of these rules.
The person in our area that teaches the "gather" is this individual.

I have never been told that the rule in the NBA or shown the rule in the NBA is different.

Oh and the idea that only the NBA is entertainment makes no sense when you look at all the NCAA rules changes and all the accommodations for TV.

Peace

Adam Wed Jan 20, 2016 07:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts (Post 977340)
It's helpful and i think some good concepts. I'm not sure I could have used them in this situation as I was opposite bench side and really didn't have a chance to communicate with the coach at that moment.

I also don't think I would want to tell the coach I had the same call if I didn't have a whistle. Maybe just a slight reword of it looked like a good call to me. Small difference in wording but back to your point of having your partners back can be helpful. I had a coach ask me last night about a travel and I gave him that response to back this same partner.
You can talk to your partner in a way that expresses support. As you're switching positions or moving in to administer the FT, a quick "Good get, Steve" loud enough for the coach to hear you does the same thing.

I've had coaches ask me if I had the same thing my partner called, and I only give one of two answers.

"Yes I did."

"I was watching another area."

I have no problem telling a coach I had the same thing even if I didn't have a whistle.

Edited to add: there is a third possible answer, "He had a much better angle than I/we did." I use "we" when the play happens while I'm standing at L or C next to the coach. It's one of my favorite lines.

Adam Wed Jan 20, 2016 07:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts (Post 977272)
Boys Varsity game.. 4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

Visiting player drives to the basket and the lead calls a foul and counts the bucket. I'm the trail and didn't have a foul call as I had incidental contact. I'm not concerned on the foul call and whether or not it was a foul but the lead counts the bucket. The contact that I saw was certainly before the shot. He had already signaled and counted the bucket.

After the game I asked him about the call and he said he believed the player had started his shooting motion and started to go up. I still disagree and disagree strongly. The home coach also disagreed and had a few words to say to let the other official know this wasn't the NBA but he was down 30 and that point so he didn't put up that much of a fight.

Any thoughts on how best to handle? Appreciate any feedback.
He called it as lead, there's a good chance he saw contact after what you saw; contact that was not incidental that happened after the shooting motion had begun.

Also, as others stated, whether he takes another step or not after getting fouled is completely irrelevant to the decision on whether his shooting motion had begun. Many layups involve shooting motion that begins prior to the final step being taken.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 20, 2016 07:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 977377)
once a player starts to gather it is assumed they are going to attempt to score unless completely evident otherwise.
Even though NCAA and NFHS don't use the words "gather" (I don't think), the concept is pretty much the same.

ODog Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrroberts (Post 977272)
4th quarter and maybe 3-4 minutes remaining. Visiting team is winning by 30.

After the game I asked him about the call ...
Why? A nothing call like this in a game that's been over for a while shouldn't gnaw at you to the point you actually bring it up to your partner in the locker room.

That can only end with negative feelings, regardless of how it plays out face to face.

Raymond Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog (Post 977400)
Why? A nothing call like this in a game that's been over for a while shouldn't gnaw at you to the point you actually bring it up to your partner in the locker room.

That can only end with negative feelings, regardless of how it plays out face to face.
I have no problem asking about the call just for knowledge's sake. The problem is expessing disagreement. Just say "ok".

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

JRutledge Thu Jan 21, 2016 05:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog (Post 977400)
Why? A nothing call like this in a game that's been over for a while shouldn't gnaw at you to the point you actually bring it up to your partner in the locker room.

That can only end with negative feelings, regardless of how it plays out face to face.
I have no problem with any question about any call. I will sometimes ask directly, "What did you see?" Then when they tell me, we move on. But I might want to know so that I have their perspective. Never accuse or suggest they are wrong, just looking for understanding.

Peace


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