Full Courter Waved Off

[Rich]

For the record, I don't subscribe to Nevada's thinking that the whistle defines the timeout. I have put time back before and I will again.

I'm just saying that what stood out to me was how long it took *any* of the officials to react here. To me, just a piece of the puzzle.

Can't see any reason why the shot was waved off, either. 1.0 seconds is more than enough time to make a quick move and get a shot off.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

For the record, I don't subscribe to Nevada's thinking that the whistle defines the timeout. I have put time back before and I will again.

As have I. I'm not going to penalize the team for me being slow to react.

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm just saying that what stood out to me was how long it took *any* of the officials to react here. To me, just a piece of the puzzle.

Can't see any reason why the shot was waved off, either. 1.0 seconds is more than enough time to make a quick move and get a shot off.

Agree on both. It seems they were not paying attention....and the shot was away in time.

[BigCat]

Camron set out earlier 5-8-1. Clock stops on the OFFICIAL'S SIGNAL. That is when the official's arm goes up. As a practical matter, the whistle comes at the same time as the arm goes up. The rule does not say that the clock stops when the coach signals the timeout.

Also, 5-10-1 says. Referee can correct OBVIOUS mistake by the TIMER to start or stop clock when he has definite knowledge. If you raise your arm/blow whistle and see clock continue to run then the TIMER has made an obvious mistake. He did not stop the clock on the official's signal. We can put the time we saw on the clock when we "signaled."

The TIMER is not making a MISTAKE, (and certainly not an obvious mistake) if he doesn't stop the clock on the coach's timeout request. As some others have said, if for some reason I go brain dead and delay signaling, I might very well put some time on the clock. However, if coach calls timeout, I determine there is player control and raise my arm the way I'm supposed to and clock stops, I will not put time back on the clock.

I call timeouts in the first half and fouls etc. The clock stops on my signal. That's the rule. It doesn't stop the exact moment the foul occurs or when the coach signals timeout. We don't put time back on clock in all of those situations and shouldn't at the end of the game either. Imo

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Camron set out earlier 5-8-1. Clock stops on the OFFICIAL'S SIGNAL. That is when the official's arm goes up. As a practical matter, the whistle comes at the same time as the arm goes up. The rule does not say that the clock stops when the coach signals the timeout.

Also, 5-10-1 says. Referee can correct OBVIOUS mistake by the TIMER to start or stop clock when he has definite knowledge. If you raise your arm/blow whistle and see clock continue to run then the TIMER has made an obvious mistake. He did not stop the clock on the official's signal. We can put the time we saw on the clock when we "signaled."

The TIMER is not making a MISTAKE, (and certainly not an obvious mistake) if he doesn't stop the clock on the coach's timeout request. As some others have said, if for some reason I go brain dead and delay signaling, I might very well put some time on the clock. However, if coach calls timeout, I determine there is player control and raise my arm the way I'm supposed to and clock stops, I will not put time back on the clock.

I call timeouts in the first half and fouls etc. The clock stops on my signal. That's the rule. It doesn't stop the exact moment the foul occurs or when the coach signals timeout. We don't put time back on clock in all of those situations and shouldn't at the end of the game either. Imo

I do not believe a single person has said anything about the request is the only reason the clock should stop. We get that the signal matters, but that signal often is not the exact moment the clock stops. And when seconds are of the essence, I am giving them everything they earned. So if they make the request with time on the clock and I am a little slow (and I will be in a timeout situation) they are getting what I noticed the very moment I blow the whistle and signal. And unless you have any evidence that in practice this is not how it is done, I would certainly like to see the reference. We do a lot of things that are not clearly spelled out or even has some best practice kind of approach. And in this case the clock ran completely out, if I am granting a timeout I am not saying my signal was too late and the game is over.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Camron set out earlier 5-8-1. Clock stops on the OFFICIAL'S SIGNAL. That is when the official's arm goes up. As a practical matter, the whistle comes at the same time as the arm goes up. The rule does not say that the clock stops when the coach signals the timeout.

Also, 5-10-1 says. Referee can correct OBVIOUS mistake by the TIMER to start or stop clock when he has definite knowledge. If you raise your arm/blow whistle and see clock continue to run then the TIMER has made an obvious mistake. He did not stop the clock on the official's signal. We can put the time we saw on the clock when we "signaled."

The TIMER is not making a MISTAKE, (and certainly not an obvious mistake) if he doesn't stop the clock on the coach's timeout request. As some others have said, if for some reason I go brain dead and delay signaling, I might very well put some time on the clock. However, if coach calls timeout, I determine there is player control and raise my arm the way I'm supposed to and clock stops, I will not put time back on the clock.

I call timeouts in the first half and fouls etc. The clock stops on my signal. That's the rule. It doesn't stop the exact moment the foul occurs or when the coach signals timeout. We don't put time back on clock in all of those situations and shouldn't at the end of the game either. Imo

The timer didn't make a mistake. I'm still putting time back. I look at the clock when a request is made -- that's how much time I'm giving them. If I'm a bit slow in blowing my whistle, I'm not penalizing the team for that.

You and Nevada can live on your island on this one.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Rich

The timer didn't make a mistake. I'm still putting time back. I look at the clock when a request is made -- that's how much time I'm giving them. If I'm a bit slow in blowing my whistle, I'm not penalizing the team for that.

You and Nevada can live on your island on this one.

I agree with your philosophy, but based on this video, I just don't see how they can put 1 second back. The officials don't seem to even recognize the timeout request until after the horn has sounded. I see no evidence that would suggest they had definite knowledge to put 1 second back on the clock.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I agree with your philosophy, but based on this video, I just don't see how they can put 1 second back. The officials don't seem to even recognize the timeout request until after the horn has sounded. I see no evidence that would suggest they had definite knowledge to put 1 second back on the clock.

Perhaps they just didn't react and blow a whistle. Hearing a coach request a timeout wouldn't show on film.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I agree with your philosophy, but based on this video, I just don't see how they can put 1 second back. The officials don't seem to even recognize the timeout request until after the horn has sounded. I see no evidence that would suggest they had definite knowledge to put 1 second back on the clock.

And this is where we just don't know without being able to actually ask the officials who worked the game. Is it possible that they knew there was a TO with time left, but didn't know the time and guessed? I suppose, I'd like to hope not, but it is at least possible. So assuming positive intentions from the crew, I think it's easiest to justify in my mind that they saw the request, noted the time, and for whatever reason, were simply late in the visual reaction. (maybe they were just trying to have a patient whistle.......... ha!)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

You and Nevada can live on your island on this one.

Pretty harsh Rich. Banishing me to an island…with Nevada... for disagreeing with you. I'm going to invoke the VIII Amendment and it's prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment…my wife would suggest Nevada do the same…

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Pretty harsh Rich. Banishing me to an island…with Nevada... for disagreeing with you. I'm going to invoke the VIII Amendment and it's prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment…my wife would suggest Nevada do the same…

Heh. That's funny, I don't care who you are...

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

The timer didn't make a mistake. I'm still putting time back. I look at the clock when a request is made -- that's how much time I'm giving them. If I'm a bit slow in blowing my whistle, I'm not penalizing the team for that.

You and Nevada can live on your island on this one.

I'm with Rich on this one. Had this last night. I did exactly what he described above. I knew the timeout was coming and was looking at the clock while listening for the coach.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm just saying that what stood out to me was how long it took *any* of the officials to react here. To me, just a piece of the puzzle.

That struck me as well. All of them looked a bit shocked that the home HC would want a TO. Makes you wonder whether they got together to chat about what might happen before the visiting team's last shot took place.