6-4-5

[bas2456]

A friend asked me about what should happen to the possession arrow when Team A is called for a five second violation during an AP throw in. So I got to explaining the rule...

In 6-4-5, it says that if Team A fouls during an AP throw in, they will not lose the possession arrow. Though if they violate (five seconds, etc), they will lose the arrow.

Why the difference?

[JRutledge]

The difference is simple. They want the arrow to change on a violation or lose the arrow on a violation and not a foul. Think of it this way, a foul could have further penalty to them like shooting FTs or maybe even shoot FTs and getting the ball to the other team. A violation you only lose the ball, that is why I believe there is the difference.

Peace

[Raymond]

Throw-in ends when throw-in team violates. AP arrow switches when AP throw-in ends.

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[bas2456]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Throw-in ends when throw-in team violates. AP arrow switches when AP throw-in ends.

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Sure. I get that.

This seems like it should be a (in very technical terms, obviously) you-had-your-chance kind of a situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Sure. I get that.

This seems like it should be a (in very technical terms, obviously) you-had-your-chance kind of a situation.

One of the biggest mistakes officials try to make is to justify a rule based on another rule. It just is the way it is. I am sure it is similar to what I stated and what BNR stated. The throw-in does not end by a foul and a foul has other penalties. Just know the difference and apply the rule properly. Not much you can do at this point. Trying to justify the rest is going to confuse you more.

Peace

[Dad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

One of the biggest mistakes officials try to make is to justify a rule based on another rule. It just is the way it is. I am sure it is similar to what I stated and what BNR stated. The throw-in does not end by a foul and a foul has other penalties. Just know the difference and apply the rule properly. Not much you can do at this point. Trying to justify the rest is going to confuse you more.

Peace

What Jrut said is important. For starters just make sure you know the rules, which it sounds like you're doing a good job of.

Checking out the history of rule changes can also help you understand why some rules may seem weird now. Changing rules can have confusing impacts on officials who only read one years rule book. Example: Team control now on throw-ins.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

Checking out the history of rule changes can also help you understand why some rules may seem weird now.

As a retired middle school science teacher, I'm a big fan of trying to understand the history of a rule to help one to better understand it, but be careful. Sometimes one can be confused by the many changes that take place for some rules. I had a jumper illegally catch the jump ball a few weeks ago and reverted back to the old rule (lose ball and lose arrow) in place when the NFHS first went to the possession arrow. Embarrassing? You bet.

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. (Edmund Burke)

I bet that Edmund Burke never officiated a basketball game.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Dad

What Jrut said is important. For starters just make sure you know the rules, which it sounds like you're doing a good job of.

Checking out the history of rule changes can also help you understand why some rules may seem weird now. Changing rules can have confusing impacts on officials who only read one years rule book. Example: Team control now on throw-ins.

Right...I know the rule, and have no problem officiating it as such.

You bring up the history of rules changes. I've only been doing high school ball since 2009. Was this a rule change at some point?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I've only been doing high school ball since 2009.

I have parts of my officiating uniform older than that.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Right...I know the rule, and have no problem officiating it as such.

You bring up the history of rules changes. I've only been doing high school ball since 2009. Was this a rule change at some point?

Team control on a throw-in made the rules a bit confusing.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Dad

Team control on a throw-in made the rules a bit confusing.

I remember that one. But that has nothing to do with the rule in question.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I remember that one. But that has nothing to do with the rule in question.

I wouldn't say nothing. It made fouls slightly closer to violations. Before fouls counted toward the bonus AND the potential to shoot FTs. Now it's just counted toward the bonus.

[Raymond]

I never met the person who wrote the rules so I can't tell you why. I just make sure I enforce it correctly every time.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

I wouldn't say nothing. It made fouls slightly closer to violations. Before fouls counted toward the bonus AND the potential to shoot FTs. Now it's just counted toward the bonus.

But that has nothing to do with his question about the arrow not changing on a foul.

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[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But that has nothing to do with his question about the arrow not changing on a foul.

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It may have everything to do with it and why they initially decided to not swap the arrow on a foul. We don't know, well, I don't know, I've never read anything to prove or disprove what I'd imagine to be their thinking.