"Let the Lead Have 1st Crack"

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by tnolan

we'll give Lead "first crack" at fast breaks, and Center can come in late if they had a look at something the Lead might not have had from their angle, like a push in the back, or a foul on the arm opposite that the Lead could easily miss in transition, even while in position.

lately i've personally been trying to get more calls from Center. and double whistles aren't a sin, just be sure to hold your prelims and be patient, release to the primary and/or be strong with your call...
many reasons here why a good pre-game is so important.

Well said!

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Freddy

This is very good when what you're getting are those calls in C's paint. An engaged C can get more primary matchup calls/no-calls correct in that, his primary area. When L calls over in C's paint, especially with a quick, impulsive whistles, that's when call accuracy suffers. This is the hardest thing for Leads who are trying to make the transition from 2-person to 3-person to learn--to let C have that call over there, unless, of course, something is missed and secondary cadence whistle is called for. Wish you the best on your pursuit as an engaged, play-calling C!

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Well said!

thanks guys.

honestly, i say it before every game...that, "tonight i'm working on being better from C"
but it wasn't until i actually worked with a guy who was the epitome of the "well engaged C". that's when you can actually see it, and put practice to paint, noticing the calls he was making, etc... it was rather eye-opening to be honest. because as Lead, you can certainly appreciate a well engaged C, and he might even bail you out once or twice when you have those brain-freezes at Lead. (hey, it happens!)

and i think it can act as a pay-it-forward type deal....where the crew notices how well you did at C, and they make it a point to get better at C, and so on....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

If you are speaking to me, I was referring to high school ball.

So was I. D1 people teach at high school camps.

I mostly like letting Lead have first crack but it kinda screwed me on a recent play I had: https://streamable.com/hck2. (Ignore the sound, the timing of the whistle is off)

In my opinion this should be Slot's play despite being semi-transition.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I mostly like letting Lead have first crack but it kinda screwed me on a recent play I had: https://streamable.com/hck2. (Ignore the sound, the timing of the whistle is off)

In my opinion this should be Slot's play despite being semi-transition.

What do you mean screwed you?

Originally Posted by Dad

What do you mean screwed you?

Cuz I ended up having to call across two lines and guess on a play that definitely needed a whistle and Slot didn't get.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I mostly like letting Lead have first crack but it kinda screwed me on a recent play I had: https://streamable.com/hck2. (Ignore the sound, the timing of the whistle is off)

In my opinion this should be Slot's play despite being semi-transition.

This is a perfect example, thanks for sharing. Primary defender with ball handler going to the basket.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I mostly like letting Lead have first crack but it kinda screwed me on a recent play I had: https://streamable.com/hck2. (Ignore the sound, the timing of the whistle is off)

In my opinion this should be Slot's play despite being semi-transition.

Agreed. Luckily you had a strong partner at lead to bail you out.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Cuz I ended up having to call across two lines and guess on a play that definitely needed a whistle and Slot didn't get.

Did you ask him why he didn't have a whistle? Just curious what he thought of the play.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I mostly like letting Lead have first crack but it kinda screwed me on a recent play I had: https://streamable.com/hck2. (Ignore the sound, the timing of the whistle is off)

In my opinion this should be Slot's play despite being semi-transition.

To be honest, we have pretty much the same view as the C in this video and its pretty hard to tell how much contact if any happens on this play.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Cuz I ended up having to call across two lines and guess on a play that definitely needed a whistle and Slot didn't get.

If you are guessing then you probably shouldn't have a whistle.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by tnolan

thanks guys.

honestly, i say it before every game...that, "tonight i'm working on being better from C"
but it wasn't until i actually worked with a guy who was the epitome of the "well engaged C". that's when you can actually see it, and put practice to paint, noticing the calls he was making, etc... it was rather eye-opening to be honest. because as Lead, you can certainly appreciate a well engaged C, and he might even bail you out once or twice when you have those brain-freezes at Lead. (hey, it happens!)

and i think it can act as a pay-it-forward type deal....where the crew notices how well you did at C, and they make it a point to get better at C, and so on....

Nothing makes a crew better than a great C.

The C has great looks at illegal screen, rebounding action, and drives in the paint. As the C you should get your share of calls in a game if you are active and are a good official. That's not to say you go looking for calls because sometimes you have a game where things just don't happen. For the most part, a good C will make the game better for everybody.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

So was I. D1 people teach at high school camps.

Unfortunately, not in my area.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Is this a case where officials are disagreeing with the way NFHS states how this should be handled or has it just become the popular way of handling this over time (institutional/tribal), etc.?

Thoughts?

The NF mechanics are only a guide. Many states do not even use this book at all. There are philosophies and practices that are used all over the place that are not written or discussed across the board. This might be one of them and often taught at camps or discussed between officials. This is not the first time and certainly will not be the last. This is especially the truth when it comes to who makes a call and where.

Peace

Originally Posted by Dad

Did you ask him why he didn't have a whistle? Just curious what he thought of the play.

Originally Posted by OKREF

To be honest, we have pretty much the same view as the C in this video and its pretty hard to tell how much contact if any happens on this play.

Originally Posted by OKREF

If you are guessing then you probably shouldn't have a whistle.

Yeah Slot in that clip didn't blow cuz it was a transition play and said Lead should get all transition plays. He also thought it was a secondary defender play and Lead should get all secondary defender plays.

I think we can all agree that this play was something -- certainly not a no-call with both players on the floor. So I had a delayed cadence whistle from Lead and came out with a charge based on my view of the defender being legal initially and moving obliquely to maintain that legal position. I think it's a block however and also think I should have come out much stronger.