Spin move
Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.
Coach A, who has been chirping much of the first half, loudly objects, "IT'S A SPIN MOVE!!!," as if that allows the change of the pivot foot. He continues with, "This game is too fast for you!" (It's a freshmen boys' game.) Partner T's up Coach A. While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people? |
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Assuming you accurately described the play, I'm thinking the call was missed. |
Maybe I'm missing something but the way this is described (remove the spin part of things): the dribble ended with the pivot foot on the floor, the other foot came down, the pivot foot was lifted but never came down again...that's legal.
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It sounds like you need to separate the term "pivot foot" and the act of "pivoting" in your own mind. They aren't necessarily related. |
I've seen many officials think it is a pivot to lift a foot and swing it around before it touches. As a result, I hear calls for travels and see a few officials call travels when it is not (yet). It isn't a pivot until the lifted foot touches again.
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Sorry, I don't have the books here to give an exact cite. Aldo, when the rule says "traveling is moving the pivot foot" "move" means step or slide -- id doesn't mean "wave around in the air." |
Some are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Actually, it's not complicated.
1. Find the pivot foot, keeping in mind there is only one pivot foot There's no such thing as the "first" and "second" pivot foot (at least not in high school). 2. If the pivot foot is lifted, the player is allowed to shoot or pass the ball. They can not start a dribble or return the pivot foot to the floor (if so, a travel violation has occurred). That's it. The way I read the OP tells me there was no traveling violation. I don't care what the coach says, I only care what the rule book says. |
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Legal ...
Imagine a dribbler ending his dribble, and establishing a pivot foot. He picks up that pivot foot to pass, or to shoot, and while said pivot foot is in the air, decides to do neither. He just stands there with his nonpivot foot on the floor, and his pivot foot in the air, holding the ball. If not closely guarded, or not in the backcourt, or not in the lane, he can stand there, legally, like a statue, for up to seven minutes and fifty-nine seconds.
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I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet." This meets the non-basketball definition of pivot, but is confused with the basketball term "pivot foot." Seems to me this is a discussion that has been had on this forum before, I know I've had the talk with others in my area. Am I correct in assuming this is where your confusion is bainsey?
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Rule 4, Section 33: Quote:
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If you simply mean to turn or twist on the non-pivot foot, then that is different and not illegal as long as the pivot foot doesn't return to the floor. |
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Here's a case book citation. Quote:
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Bainsey,
I'm confused by your answer. Please state whether you believe that a player can do this or not: ============================================ Originally Posted by frezer11 https://forum.officiating.com/images...s/viewpost.gif I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet." ============================================= |
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There is nothing wrong with twisting or turning the non-pivot foot while the other foot remains in the air. The definition of pivot was provided by Camron and involves stepping with the other foot while one foot is kept in contact with the floor. That would be illegal when done with the non-pivot foot as the other foot would touch the floor again by definition. |
There was a game-winning basket made in the NCAA tournament a few years ago by Georgetown's Jeff Green against Vanderbilt in this exact manner. Please do an Internet search for the video.
We had a fairly extensive thread on the play on this forum as the TV announcers initially incorrectly screamed for a travel. The NCAA announced that the move was perfectly legal. |
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Yes, the 2007 game was the one. I do not know of any difference in the NCAAM traveling rule from the NFHS rule. Here are two threads we had on that situation: https://forum.officiating.com/basket...diots-too.html https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-incident.html |
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"NFHS 4.44.2A: Dribbler A1 catches the ball with the right foot touching the floor and then jumps off that foot an alights on both feet simultaneously... RULING: ... it is a violation if A1 pivots on either foot." In this case book play which you cited, after completing this jumpstop A1 may still jump in order to pass or shoot. A1 can certainly lift either foot, he just can't put it back down. |
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See the definition of pivot from 4.33 that Camron cited: A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor. To "step" you must pick up a foot and put it back down. |
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I honestly don't know how you've managed to misunderstand such a simple rule, so badly.
Again, a PIVOT FOOT, as it pertains to the rulebook, is a different use of the word PIVOT than in the action of PIVOTING. The travel rules are, in their wording, quite simple. They are also the most missed call in the game, but I can't say I've ever seen it missed in this manner or with this reasoning. |
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Peace |
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Both feet on floor, player facing basket. Picks up left foot and places it back down, lifts right foot, and spins 360 degrees with left foot staying in contact with the floor and releases ball before right foot returns to floor. Is this what you are talking about? Legal. |
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I'm certain that he is finding this thread to be eye-opening. |
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A player holding the ball picks up his left foot and right stays at point of contact on floor. The right foot becomes the PIVOT FOOT. --The definition of pivot 4-33--player holding the ball STEPS once or more than once….with the same foot while the other foot called the "pivot foot" is kept at its point of contact with the floor. A player only has ONE pivot foot. The word STEPS (verb) is to lift foot and place it down. So when the player lifts the left foot with the right remaining on the floor, the right is the pivot foot. When the player actually puts the left foot on the floor (a step) he has PIVOTED. Now the player lifts the right foot (PIVOT FOOT) and is standing on his left foot. That left foot is NOT a pivot foot. There is only one pivot foot, the right. Also, even if it were a pivot foot, it is not a pivot until the other foot hits the floor. Twisting on one foot while the other stays in the air is not, by definition, a pivot. In my example the left foot..is just a foot. Player standing only on that foot must pass or shoot--can jump also but can't return either foot to floor. The PLAYER LOCATION rule says player is located where he is in contact with floor. The player can spin or twist on that left foot provided he remains in contact with floor at that location. If he starts twisting his way down the court on one leg he is doing more than passing or shooting. |
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Thanks for the heads up, crew. |
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