Coach appears to headbutt official
 

Found video on Twitter from PA game down near Philly.
Tough to tell from the video but the coach "pumps" his head and chest towards the official who appears to T him up before that.
Not 100% sure if he makes contact, but the official goes down quick!

https://youtu.be/4lHpCW2lhhM

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4lHpCW2lhhM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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I'm going to assume the coach is already fired and charges will be coming soon?

Should be. Nothing excuses that. One of his players on the bench behind him puts his arms over his head in the last few frames, as if to say, "suddenly, our season will never be the same."

In the spirit of lessons learned, however, the calling official did not help things. He appeared to be issuing the technical with extreme anger/emotion. I'm sure the T was warranted. But when you let it get personal, things can get out of hand. Always say to yourself, "it's just another foul." Stay calm. Report. Then go administer free throws while your partners handle the admin and aftermath. Good to pre-game this.

You're right. Nothing excuses this. I've deleted the irrelevant part of your post.

I don't know how you can see "extreme anger/emotion" from this video. And regardless its almost an insult to suggest that he "didn't help things" or acted in any manner whatsoever that led to this coach's actions.

And I see the "it's just another foul call" jargon a lot around here. I disagree. It's not just another call. Doesnt mean you get emotional or make a big deal out of it but its not the same as a common foul or a violation and I don't think we should lie and say it is.

Figured this would make it here. Unfortunately this is my school. You are right that nothing excuses the coach's actions. His current status is "indefinite suspension", but that will most likely be upgraded to "dismissed" in short order.

That being said the angle of the videos (and I've seen some from the other direction) makes a huge difference in how much contact there seems to be. Even the opposing fans (who were chanting "coach is a scumbag" immediately after) even said the official should get an Oscar.

Doesn't matter what fouls happened or even if contact happened. Just the gesture of the "headbutt" should be a dismissal let alone if it connected.

If he sold the crap out of it I only have one thing to say:

Good for him.

How the hell can you derive this from this video alone?

And why does it matter? I'm sorry but we are not robots. If I whack a coach there will probably be some personality and emotion with the call.

Technical fouls are "just another foul"? Preposterous.

I chalk that phrase up as another example of ludicrous camp speak. A T is not just like another foul no matter how many times someone tries to say that.

I know NFHS purists frown upon showing any inkling of personality with our calls, but I really don't care. NBA and college officials almost always call Ts with emphasis. Don't understand why it's seen as taboo in high school.

Is it just me or does the official appear to make the technical foul signal twice?

Wow!
Reminds me to be professional at all times, especially when addressing the coaches, fans or players... cause when the game is on the line or they don't like a call; they can and will turn on us like mange dogs.
What an disgrace!

I have been told at college camps to call a T just like it is any other foul. I think that is more what you hear people in your area or camps say. I do not get the impression that is any more than a person position that individuals take like they do with many other things. What I do at the college level is almost identical to what I do at the high school level. I guys I work for that assign college are some of the same people I work or worked high school for. The biggest difference is the shirt, but that is about it.

Peace

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mQgobfmzYA8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here is the video slowed down. The coach needs to be fired.

Peace

Here's another view of the incident. The play leading up to it begins at 1:33:29 on the 2nd video on the page. The first video is a condensed version.

http://livestream.com/accounts/1274087/events/4613089

(obviously I'm out of practice with embedding...)

Interesting....

The call that led to the T was wrong, IMO. The defender slid in late (after the shooter was airborne) and the contact was well off center (meaning there probably wouldn't have even been contact if not for the defender sliding in late.) Call should have been a block.

Either way, the response by the coach was entirely unacceptable.

I hated having that same feeling as I watched the play since I don't want to blame the victim. But again, it doesn't excuse the actions of the head coach.

Meantime, there are things we can learn/discuss in terms of the crew's reaction. My first thought was I wished the L and the C got the T away from the scene of the crime (I know, it's an emotional situation so it's hard to think straight). The T could have stepped back and observed the benches while the L reported his PC and the C made sure the HC left the visual confines.

I was also a bit surprised the L didn't ring up the HC on his own. Three-point game or not, the guy came 5-10 feet onto the court to get in the L's face. It looked as though he may have thought about calling a T then changed his mind.

Front Page of USAToday - Online
 

By: Micah Peters | January 6, 2016

According to a local NBC affiliate, Police responded to a Tuesday night high school basketball game between Neshaminy and Pennsbury in Pennsylvania.

Philadelphia’s City of Basketball Love reports that in the final 30 seconds of the game, Neshaminy head coach Jerry Devine – upset with an offensive foul call on a layup that would’ve made it a 3-point game – argued with one of the officials, and then appeared to headbutt a second.

Devine has been the Varsity Boys head coach at Neshaminy for 10 years. Middletown Township Police who responded to the call, have not yet revealed if any charges brought against Devine.

Camron:

I agree with you about the charging call. While I have no problem with the L making a call on this play, the C had the best look at the play and if there were (and I do not know if there was) a double whistle, the L should have let the C take the call.

Mark, Jr., and I had a similar situation last night in our 8th grade boys' game. I was L, opposite the Table, when A1 drove from above the FT extended but just on the opposite the Table of the side of the court. A1, while airborne, slammed into B1 who was standing in the middle of the FTL just in front of the Basket. We had a double whistle and while the contact was in my PCA I let Mark have the call because he had the best look of the whole play while I had to look through a group of players to see A1. To be honest, I had a charge by A1, but by letting Mark (the official who had the best look at the whole play) we got the call correct because it was a Block by B1.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I hope that official presses charges against the HC.

When we get an unexpected attack to our head, we jerk back. If that jerk puts our shoulders far enough behind our hips, we fall down. That's just how the human body works. So, no, he doesn't appear to "sell" the attack. He just reacts to it. To further this, he gets up immediately in the longer video.

The biggest mistake officials in all sports make (myself included) is staying within arms reach of people who are angry with us. For our own safety, we should be standing no closer than a couple of feet from anyone who is currently upset with us. Unfortunately, it's come to us having to consider our safety while we work.

I'm surprised they haven't fired the coach already.

I can assure you he won't be coaching, and completely agree with that.

With that being said the legal ramifications (and monetary) jump significantly between an intimidation move (acting like you are going to headbutt) and actually making contact. I hope you can understand that. No coach should ever respond to an official that way (and should rightly be removed from coaching) , but it's also not right for that same coach to get charged with assault if the official did simply "sell" or embellish contact that was or was not there.

Physical contact is not needed for an assault charge. I know from personal experience as I had to go to court once to (successfully) defend myself against an assault charge. At no time was it every alleged that I made physical contact.

Generally speaking (as some states use slightly different terms), if the coach did not make contact, he's guilty of assault. If he did make contact, he's guilty of battery.

Regardless, the official didn't sell or embellish anything. He simply reacted in the natural manner to a sudden attack to the head.

If you look at the video on USA Today, which has a very different angle than the video posted in this thread, it sure looks like he makes contact.

The USA Today video (different angle) which shows the head butt a bit more clearly is here: USA Today Article

He made contact chest-to-chest, which caused the official to fall. So if he ends up with a battery charge to go along with an assault charge, oh well for him.

Thanks! This is a much better video (for officials to learn from) as you state in your next post.

I agree with most here, that:
A) more than likely should have been a block call based on the secondary defenders' timing of LGP
B) C could probably make this call, but not from where he appeared to be in the video. maybe it's just the video, but it looks like he's a mile away! and instead of closing down, he tilts his head a little bit and never moves. so IMO, Lead has the better look here as center didn't put himself into position to make this call. at first i was afraid there would be a no call!
C) obviously, the coaches actions (contact or none) are ridiculously unacceptable

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99.99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

With that being said, I'm still not sure if contact was made. And it's obvious that regardless of whether it was or not, the action of "chest/head pumping" or "faking" towards an official is an immediate ejection, for a player or coach. And then the coach waves his arm after the official falls down, as if to say, "pffft, i barely even touched you or didn't touch him at all, whatever" sort of gesture. completely uncalled for. I hope as many coaches see this video as officials and take some time to realize that they really need to be professional at all times.
For the officials sake, I hope that no contact was made and I hope that he is okay.

I know this is off topic, but did you hear the broadcasters in the second video in the link below? Go to approximately 1:33:30 and watch the play, the T, the contact and listen to the broadcasters.......:eek::eek:

Secondary defender, play's in the lane. This belongs 100% to the L.

Without a better angle, this is what I think happened too. Between the official's reflexive jerking his head back and getting an extra "push" from the coach's belly, he fell down and got right back up. I didn't see any indication from the official that he got hit in the head (e.g. putting his hand to his face).

The coach still needs to go.

Is it just me or if a coach comes that far out on the court and almost runs into my partner with all of that anger and is processing (horrible?) a call I cant whack the coach because its his job too and not mine. Are we a team? Its not even border line that is an automatic by someone on the crew right?

Not sure why anyone thinks this is Slot's play: secondary defender, in the lane is Lead's all day. Hell, the defender even came from Lead's side of the paint.

no, i agree with you here. the coach deserves a T 100% of the time in this case. i'm more leaning towards: let the Lead handle this first, but should he not issue one, THEN the Trail or Center should come T the coach up.

not really blaming the Trail for calling it, but maybe give Lead the first crack at handling his own. And if then the Trail calls it, Lead shouldn't argue with it and only thank him later for coming to his aid.

First and foremost the coach's actions have absolutely no place in a basketball game at any level, let alone a scholastic environment. He deserves whatever negative consequences come about as a result.

From on officiating perspective I agree with much of the above. I understand the sentiment of having your partner's back but I think the Trail should have given the Lead another second or two to handle the situation himself.

And when he comes in with the T he does so rather aggressively while stepping toward the coach. I don't think its fair to characterize it as "extreme anger/emotion" as another poster stated but I do think its fair to suggest that its not a good practice to issue a T in such a manner in this situation.

A sad situation for HS basketball as a direct result of the coach's inability to control himself but hopefully a learning experience for all.

right. see my previous post and reply to BigT.

but take the coaches 2nd actions towards the Trail out of the case. do you still think he did so "aggressively"?
i can't say he did anything wrong here, but will say he could've easily called the T from where he stood initially.

Here's what the original Youtube page says:

"Neshaminy and Pennsbury were in a tight game with seconds remaining in regulation. According to City of Basketball Love, a Neshaminy player was called for a charge, wiping out a layup that could've made the margin three points. That's when coach Jerry Devine lost it."

Update
 

Neshaminy (Langhorne, Pa.) basketball coach placed on administrative leave after incident with referee

By Adam Woodard, USA TODAY High School Sports January 6, 2016

Neshaminy (Penn.) boys basketball coach Jerry Divine has been placed on administrative leave after an incident Tuesday night in which he appeared to headbutt an official, knocking him to the ground while protesting a controversial call late in Neshaminy’s game against Pennbury.


Early Wednesday morning the school released a statement, saying they will investigate the incident involving the referee and Divine.

“The administration at Neshaminy School District is conducting a thorough review of an incident at the varsity basketball game Tuesday evening (January 5, 2016) involving coach Jerry Devine and a referee. Appropriate action was taken at the game following that incident, and further measures may follow depending on the outcome of that review. As this is a personnel matter, we will not be able to comment on the specifics of any possible disciplinary action until that review process is complete.

Mr. Devine has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of that review for both his teaching and coaching positions.

The athletic program at Neshaminy places the values of fair play and sportsmanlike conduct above all. We expect our coaches and staff to teach and uphold those principles, while acting in a professional manner at all times.”

This guy is a dirtbag and should be gone. No question about it. There is no defense for this kind of crap.

And this, my friends, is the difference between ASSAULT and BATTERY. BATTERY is normally the charge when contact is made.

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

Correct.
Assault--"I'm going to beat your a$$"
Battery--punch in the face
Assault & Battery--"I'm going to beat your a$$", followed by a punch in the face

Looks like the other two officials may have had their back to their partner and the confrontation at the moment the alleged contact occurred even though at least one of those two officials saw the first official whack the coach.

As alluded to earlier...depends on the jurisdiction. Many (maybe even most?) don't make the distinction anymore and have their assault laws reflect that...to include either threaten and/or bodily contact.

As to the play....I don't know how anyone can say the slot should have had first crack at this. This is one of the lead's bread and butter plays....secondary defender in the lane. Slot is not going to be able to see the lateral movement as well as the lead and determine whether the defender got to his spot prior to the offensive player being airborne.

With the technical fouls....I agree that the trail came in too quickly with his T. I say that with the caveat that both officials are on relative equal footing (i.e experience level). I could perhaps see a CC coming in a little quicker with the T to help his younger (less experienced) partner. Otherwise. I think he needs to give partner a chance to take care of business. He doesn't do so...then by all means T him up.

As long as we're all speculating, my thought was the T initially sprinted over to act as a buffer between the coach and the L because he didn't want the coach following the L all the way to the table. But I bet he heard something as he closed in that was T worthy and just ended up in a bad place when he felt the need to T him up. But who knows.

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

I'm sick of all the BS excuses by folks (on here and in general) for piss poor behavior by players and coaches while the officials are expected to walk on water. Let's call it what it is. Sad, sorry, and old. I may unload on a coach if they headbutted me and made me felt threatened. I'm sure then the coach would be forgiven, I would be put in jail for 10 years and he would get a book deal.

I see. You're probably right.

and maybe Smitty has something there...
maybe Trail is rushing in to act as a buffer between the coach and Lead?
maybe Trail believes that he had given Lead enough time to have first crack at giving the coach a T, and that it was his time to step in?
no one will know but Trail.

but like i said earlier....i don't put blame on Trail for coming in quick. and it's definitely unfortunate that he had to be the "victim" of a moron head coach, but i believe if his only intention was to T the coach up, and not act as a buffer, he could've called the T from 10 feet away. jus' sayin' ;)

The official could have called him all kinds of names and still IMO did not warrant the reaction from the coach. If we started swinging on everyone that said something bad to us, none of us would be without a criminal record. If we can restrain ourselves every game and multiple times, I think a coach can walk away because he got a T, not a ticket, not a fine, just a procedural act in a game that at best gives the other team the ball and some points. Nothing that took place was out of line or over the top by the official.

Peace

Unless you all have seen a video that I've missed, I don't know how you can make a determination that the T came too quickly. We don't see the coach until he is well out onto the court, and we don't see the T until after that. We have no idea how far either of them came to get to that point.

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

Good post, and I agree. This coach can go sit on a road spike.

http://6abc.com/sports/new-video-sho...feree/1147894/

The referee said his head made contact with his head. Glad he reacted so it was very minor head contact.

This guy works with kids with special needs? Wow not the type of character I see working with those kids.

I was slapped on the shoulder by coach who was upset with me and took a cheap shot. I regret not calling the police.

It sounds like this guy didnt press charges and I think that is a huge mistake.

There is no such animal as a "secondary defender" in NFHS Basketball Rules (Remember: The reason the LGP rule is written as it is, is because the Player in control of the Ball should expect to be guarded from the instant that he/she gains PC until he/she is not longer in PC.).

I don't have a problem with a double whistle (C and L) on this play. And from where A1 started his drive down the lane I would expect that C would have the best look at the whole play. But, from the video, it appeared that C was not very engaged in officiating the play. He did not close down on the drive to get a good look at the play and instead took the "Leaning Tower of Pizza" approach to look around a couple of players that were between him and the play, and never had a whistle on the play. Once the L made the call he seemed to not even be interested in keeping a foot in the bucket to be in the proper position in case Team A pressed when Team B inbounded the Ball on the End Line after the PCF.

And as much as I love calling a charge (And I do resemble the L in the video: short, stout, and bald, :p.), if I were the L in this play and the C also had a whistle, I would have defered to the C.

Even after the assault by the HC he was very slow moving in getting to point of the confrontation. I have not watched the whole game but in the snippet of video I did watch of the play he just seemed like he did not want to be on the court. His body language just did not look good.

MTD, Sr.

Mark is right there is no secondary defender in the NF rules. But also we overuse that term IMO as I can see a secondary defender as an outside official if the play is in the lane. In some cases, the secondary defender is more clearly seen by the C or T as they saw where they came from, unobstructed.

I totally disagree that someone other than the L cannot call a foul on a secondary defender when they see the play the entire way. The secondary defender is only involved in the NCAA (Men's) if the defender is in the Restricted Area. Outside of that, the secondary defender is not a factor in a call in the lane other than if there is a double whistle who gets the call. I have talked with many that modify that based on the play or situation.

Peacer

I find it incredibly disappointing that there are more than a few of our own officials that want to pin some part of the blame on the official for getting headbutted (and he did get headbutted per at least two of the videos I've seen).

It's one thing how to discuss the best way to handle unusual situations but an official NEVER deserves to be assaulted/battered for doing his job. We already have enough non-officials that think we deserve it, no need to help them out by doing it to ourselves.

Who cares what it says in the rules book? Terms that teach people how to officiate don't have to appear in a rules book.

Whose primary is the person who got hit in the *entire* time? How is an outside person supposed to pick that person up and judge if he establishes and maintains legal guarding position?

This play isn't even close -- it's an obvious block.

OTHER OBSERVATIONS FROM THIS GAME

So I went back to about the 1 hour 29 minute mark of this game to see what led up to some of this which is always hard from just a video, but there are a few observations that I believe are good reminders for us all.

1. There is an earlier block/charge call where a block was called, very similar but called differently than what led up to this play.

2. There is a tie up between two players at mid-court and then again in the back court, no call was made, but coaches were upset at this.

3. Then we have a 3 made by white, followed by a foul by white. White whacks the ball after it (the announcers make the comment, that a technical could have been called).

4. Official notifies white coach of 5th foul, white coach is standing about 10 feet out on the court during the replacement period.

5. Then after the 5th foul but before the head butt, you see a white player just casually standing next to the table, why is the bench personnel standing at this point?

Then the head butt......I have these questions.

1. Why does the 3rd official run in leave the middle of the court where most of the players are standing? What if a fight had broken out on the court?

2. Why is the orange player allowed to linger by white's bench after the technicals. His teammate actually comes in to clear him out.

3. After the two technicals, why is the majority of the white bench still standing?


Listen don't take this the wrong way, in the moment there is a lot is going on, but I think they are lucky this didn't escalate even further.

You know, I couldn't possibly give a crap about this.

Every play is a snowflake --I'm not going to kick the shit out of one just so it looks like we "call it the same at both ends."

I think the play before the head butt was a pretty obvious block. Let's say that the same play was incorrectly called a charge at the other end -- the whole notion that I should just kick one to high heaven in the name of consistency is just appalling to me.

No one on here has remotely suggested that the official deserved it or that the coach was way out of line regardless of what preceded it. But, for heaven's sake, this is a place for referees to discuss how to be effective, not just to bash moron coaches (even when they deserve it). Discussing what the referee(s) could have done differently to make the escalation less likely is an important aspect for referees to improve. Don't misread that as anyone trying to exonerate the moron coach in this case.

I wasn't stating whether it was consistent or inconsistent, just that the same play happened minutes before this play and was called one way. It was not a situation where it was called on the other end differently. If I am coach though, and in my opinion have the same play in a row, one time a charge and one time a block, a coach is absolutely going to ask for consistency. Its the same reason officials will say, if its a foul in minute 1 its a foul in minute 31. Now that being said, maybe both calls were exactly correct, but I can guarantee you the coach won't see that way in the heat of the moment.

No two plays are exactly alike. And, yes, I've said that to coaches before.

What about the guy in the third row? should he have changed his name to Steve? IOW @#%#$ that has nothing to do with crappy behavior that gets deflected for some unrelated set of events. ITS HS BASKETBALL.

Dave,

This was my initial thought as well.....

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Its a shame that it has to be spelled out but not a single person here has tried to excuse the coach's behavior or deemed it acceptable in any shape or form. So I don't know why people keep repeating it as if anyone is arguing to the contrary.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations. Every single game I work I come away thinking of things I could have done differently to improve overall at this craft.

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

I also commented that its generally not good practice to step aggressively toward the coach while issuing a T as the Trail did in this situation. I stand by both of those opinions based on my experience as an official and specific situations that I have seen both escalated and diffused. Since apparently it needs to be said, this doesnt in any way excuse the coach's behavior, mitigate his culpability for his actions, or suggest that the official deserved to have what happened in any way whatsoever.

It is however my opinion of a possible takeaway from this situation.

+1. It's all about the takeaways and lessons learned from an officiating standpoint. This is an officiating forum, after all.

I said (late last night....when I was tired and only saw the video a couple times) that T showed "extreme anger/emotion." In fairness, I'll revise that and agree with some that have said his actions were simply "aggressive." Still, if we expect the coach to keep his cool, we have to be ready to do so as well. While I would have liked the L to have the "T," like many posters I don't object to the T coming in quickly here. But I would have preferred he omit the fast approaching, all-up-in-your-grill signaling. The T's approach seemed escalatory, and we're charged with being de-escalatory when we're on the court.

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

That was a terrible call? OK, I thought he was there.

And you do not control the actions of a coach. They do that on their own. If they cannot do that, that is on them. They rolled the dice, not everyone is going to walk away from them.

Peace

I don't know what game you were watching. That was as close to a bang-bang block/charge as there ever is.

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And he got it right IMO.

Peace

Tony went on record and basically said he made the correct call.

Sorry, but for you to say it wasn't a close call is insane.

He also didn't work the NCAA tournament that year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What does that mean? That one call made that big of a difference? I doubt that seriously.

BTW, not sure what else the defender can do?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w0g3_DdsW3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

You should do your research and not just make blind statements because you're wrong again. He worked a regional final in 2014.

Please explain?

It means he just made a blatantly false statement because Greene worked a regional final that year.

I certainly did not remember it that way either, but I was too lazy to look it up at the time. Glad you did. He worked the Final Four the year before too I believe.

Peace

That was me. I keep thinking if I was the L on this play I probably T the HC once I see him that far onto the court - even before bothering to give the information on the initial foul. If he's down the sideline and complaining I can wait. Essentially, the HC got in the way of the L as the L moved towards the reporting area.

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.


And not once did I say we shouldn't. But there is also a way to do that without alluding to victim blaming. Relax and carry on.

Actually, Greene's call was the correct call.

I heard someone suggest in the media that the officials flopped. As if that matters when you are on the court and the only one that has the right to be on the court is the official in this situation.

Peace

Don't know what you're talking about. Greene nailed that call.

You're right. On the drive in to work this morning I remembered what I had pondered back then. It was that he did not get selected for the final four for the first time in many years that season. Did not make it last year, either.

I apologize for the inaccurate statement.

As to the call, we'll agree to disagree, but at a camp the following summer we broke down the play and the mechanics ad nausea. It took a while for the clinicians to convince me, but eventually I came to the realization that it was a block. Certainly as close to a 50-50 call there can be, I will give you that. If Tony rotates sooner and has turned and is standing still when the contact occurs, I believe the call, charge or not, would have been more credible. That's my biggest takeaway.

But don't forget that my original point was that Tony handled the assessment of the technicals perfectly.


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My memory of that play is that the call was correct but that the mechanics in covering the call were not the best. Also, the real problem was that a few minutes earlier a Duke player (Parker??) had run over a Syracuse defender on a fast break and that play was incorrectly called a block.

This, of course, has nothing to do with Boeheim's outrageous behavior, or the coach from PA.

Man this discussion is taking the cake for stupidity. A coach headbutts an official and the conversation goes to what ifs and what should haves to somehow justify the behavior, as if that is exucasble. Then we start drawing parallels to another T and how ALL t's should be administered because this one T was done so "perfectly".

Why does every post on this forum have to turn to fantastical what ifs and what I would do or they should have done. $h!t happens. Coach crossed the line. No excuse. End of story. A T called in a Syracuse game years ago has nothing to do with this.

If you don't like the discussion, you don't have to post, right?

My comments were in response to several posts in this thread not just yours, which I read just fine. Who is the one being defensive here? I'm relaxed and hope you are as well.

And I'm also well aware of the world outside of this place but my only concerned in this forum is discussing the play from an officiating perspective. Again, I would think we could do that without conflating it with victim blaming.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you think there is nothing to discuss from an officiating perspective then more power to you. All I will say is that is extrememly short sighted IMO.

LOL
i didn't make the OP and link the video because i wanted to report the coach to Law & Order SVU!
i did it so we would talk about basketball situations. video is the absolute best tool for officials, and unfortunately, most guys still read from the case book every meeting and argue about where to have the end of the year chapter get together! but i digress....

i would have shared the video with or without the "headbutt" action. generating discussion from every aspect of this video to the initial call, to the technical, to even dissecting how the Center handled every second of that clip is why i shared it and why this forum exists (i hope). i login every day in hopes that every thread is meant to generate discussion and help us to stay actively involved in the rules and application of them during the season and never meant to ridicule officials, (even coaches or players) but rather point out areas that merit out attention.

i'm not trying to call you out, but if the only thing you took away from the video is that the coach was out of line, that's quite obvious, and you're missing the point of posting.

I am not going to defend this clown coach in any way and I will not blame the officials for anything, but I'll be honest. The first thing I thought when I saw the video was the Trail should have waited and let the Lead handle the technical first. I too think the Lead was going for his whistle to give the technical when the Trail stepped in. I'm not saying he deserved the contact from the coach or excusing anything, but I agree with Terp that he could have handled it differently.

Even when you feel like you do everything right in a situation, there is usually always something to learn from watching the video.

It doesn't matter who gives this clown a T. Lead, center, or trail. He deserved one immediately, and if I'm the lead I could care less that the trail stuck him. I wouldn't even care if there were 3 whistles for a T on this play.

I would like to know how they justified a block.

If someone behaves like this the police should be call and you should request action to be taken by local authorities. Maybe I should ask what part you want me to explain?

I wanted to ask you guys a question. If instead T pop his whistle and sent all the players/coaches to the bench, let L report his foul and then got the crew together to discuss the obvious T and then called it are they in a better position to handle the coach and players and then admin the T? I wonder if we are so used to report our calls we fail to maybe use a tool to deescalate things and be in a better position to handle the aftermath of that situation.

Because I am newer maybe this is a really bad idea. I am looking forward to you guys thoughts on this mini timeout, discuss, let people settle down then calling the T.

Again thanks in advance,

decent point.
not sure if i agree or disagree with it though. obviously you can't know, but it does almost appear that way.

but a couple new tips to take away from it, is that Lead needs SLOW DOWN. he did a great job of making the call, fist in the air, immediately cancels the basket, and makes the proper PC mechanic. but he shouldn't have left his PCA until he knows for sure who he has the foul on. how is he able to process and properly assess the coach a T, when he doesn't even know who the foul is on?
had he had the number in his head already, he's looking directly at the table to report while coming up and meets that coach head on and then can enforce the T correctly. (hopefully)
report PC, report T, possibly quickly conference with crew to make sure they're all on the same page, go opposite to get away from the coach you just T'd up, shoot in the order in which they occurred and continue the game.

also worth noting, early in the video, the Lead also has the closely guarded count in the corner, which the Lead should never do.

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

I took your verbiage in your post to be directed at me but fair enough. I've slept and backed off the ledge.

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?