So if it happens on YouTube, notoriety is enough punishment? If there is no video, then charges need to be pressed?

Would the philosophy apply if someone takes cuts in front of me at the supermarket and I knocked that person down in response?

Exactly!!!

If there was a "like" or "love" button I would press it as it relates to this post.

Peace

Social responsibility. No-brainer.

If you feel for the coach, good for you. Almost no one else does and rightly so. He acted out in a way that isn't acceptable and just because you feel sorry for him doesn't mean the rest of the world should ignore laws.

In the video I saw, he was at arms length before the coach lunged and head-butted him. I think smitty offered the most reasonable explanation for the proximity as it was. He was getting into the situation to diffuse it when the coach earned his T.

He can shake hands and forgive after sentencing. Hell, he can even testify as a character witness in the sentencing hearing for all I care.

I understand it's his decision whether or not to press charges, but I think this is one of those rare cases where the situation is bigger than the parties involved. By filing charges, he would be making a statement for all of the officials in their area and beyond. That may sound grandiose, but I think it's true.

So yes, it's his choice, but it's a choice that affects us all in some way. Do I want the coach to suffer? No, but I want him to face a jury of his peers.

I feel More for the kids, they have to answer questions daily about this stupidity by their coach!
The official is now the hero and the coach is the goat and rightly so; because he made an enormous mistake.
So now what do you gain by throwing him in jail for a night... Assuming he can make bail...?



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He now has an arrest record that he has to answer to for background checks. He's teaching (special ed, from what I have red) kids in school, and I'd be shocked if this was his first time physically losing his temper.

And physical assault in the course of performing his duties is not going to be easy to move through. I'm ok with that. I want this to be a felony, too.

What's gained? Maybe, just maybe, a hot head stops having a chance to teach kids.

What's gained? Maybe, just maybe, the next hot head realizes he doesn't get away with acting like a 5 year old child just because he gets caught up in the heat of the competition.

He's a damned adult and should be expected to act accordingly.

And if an official head butted a coach in the midst of a heated discussion, I think we'd all be calling for charges there, too. Assaulting people has consequences in the real world, and the basketball court is not an exemption to the real world.

Life is about the choices we make and the consequences resulting from those choices. The coach chose to commit a crime. I hoped the official was going to choose to start the process so the idiot...I mean educator/coach...on second thought...IDIOT would have to face ALL the consequences of the choice he made. Sometimes, when a person makes a choice the consequences are minor...sometimes the consequences are extremely harsh, cost the person their current career for the remainder of their life and remove them from society for a period of time.

To the person who has to pay that steep a price I say "Life is hard. It is even harder when you are an idiot and make stupid decisions" (probably butchered that...apologies to the originator).

That is even more reason he needs to be gone and in jail. If this had happened in a bar, we would not be talking about what should nor what should be happening here. We would be making it clear that the person had violated the law should be prosecuted. This person is supposed to be an example for his kids and school.

And since you do not know what will be gained, he needs to have on his actual record that anytime he applies for a job that someone can see he was convicted of a crime. And since he is around kids, that should matter. There are people all over that have even a misdemeanor violation that have to explain to an employer why they are convicted. Maybe that will help deter others from acting like they cannot behave during a sporting event. As I have said, if officials started attacking everyone that said something bad to us or did something we did not like, we would not get a pass I am sure. They would talk about us as an authority figure and we would have to pay for our actions.

To me the playing field/court should be the last place this stuff happens. It is not like the world is going to come crashing down because you do not like a block/charge call. It is one thing to come onto the court, but it is another to even think of touching that person and not even the person that had anything to do with the call.

Peace

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

Recognizing out of control people and trying to stay an arm's length away from them sounds easy enough on it's surface, but the video clearly shows what happens when an out of control person doesn't want to remain an arm's length away. It's not always up to us.

Good point though about being "right" not preventing you from getting injured. Kind of like the pedestrian in the crosswalk who is legally in the right, but still gets killed when a car runs over him.

No, internet "humiliation" is not enough. He committed a crime. This forum - and the internet as a whole - is not the place where punishments are handed out for criminal infractions.

I'm not criticizing the official, but I do think it is a mistake to not press charges. As others have said, this is about more than just this isolated incident. This is about setting a precedent that this behavior will not be tolerated.

So what? I don't see how this is relevant at all.

Yep, and I stopped caring about that with the assault. I'm willing to discuss that, within reason, when a coach gets a technical foul after a missed call.

Assault and battery changes that for me.

Well, the referee entered what my karate sensei calls close or elbow and knee range. This is partly because of his own movements and partly because of the coaches'. This is closer than arm's length (punching range).

If you stay more than arm's length, they have to move to punch you (and really move to head butt you) which gives you time to retreat, dodge, or block the attack (I recommend retreat). It's also a distance which is hard to cover on impulse so it should eliminate some "heat of the moment" attacks.

The moral is to stand off from upset people and move away from them when they move towards you. If this referee had started just a few inches further away, he would likely have avoided the attack. His reflexes were good. He just didn't have enough time.

Like Rut said....I so wish there was a Like/Love button! So much good conversation going on.

My 2 cents...

1. Block/Charge calls can often go either way and unless you are positioned to see clearly between the 2 players your chances are higher to get it wrong. Block/Charge in this game....Who cares. Bodies on the floor we have to come out with something.

2. No excuse for the coaches behavior. Period.

3. After watching this footage I'm definitely going to make sure I take a step or 2 away from an angry coach or player BEFORE I give a Technical (as self preservation should be #1).

4. I watched the video from the beginning of the game and it appears the official who was assaulted performed the toss, so its possible he was the R and possibly the reason he wanted to help the L with the Technical. Just a thought.

5. I have NO respect for any coach, player, administrator, or fan that assaults officials because its a cowardly act. They know we are less likely to physically or verbally fight back because of our role.

6. I'm with the I hope our fellow official presses charges as this event will affect ALL officials. Unfortunately going through the legal process is the only way we can protect ourselves....

Be safe Ladies and Gentlemen! :cool:

All good- Happy New Year!

The call could have been 100% correct and still evoked the same reaction.

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

If he'd had karate training, he would have known that.

On the other hand, the coach did have to move to hit him. He moved quite a distance, actually, pretty quickly.

What?
 

Shocked I tell ya. Shocked I am!

Maybe in Hampton Roads, but not up here! Just ask em, they'll tell ya! ;)

It certainly could, but we'll never know.

I've never said anything that suggests the coach has an excuse for behaving as he did. He should be charged with crime for his actions. He was way beyond a reasonable reaction to a call, whether right or wrong.

Either way, that doesn't erase the face that the call that led to it was also wrong. And most of what we work on and discuss here is getting the calls right. It can' t hurt to discuss that too and discuss the potential consequences of getting calls wrong.

I have not seen an angle that I am satisfied with the correctness of the call. All I have seen is an angle from the other side of the court and not the angle of the calling official. I also doubt it was just that call. There was probably other things that got him upset.

If you look at a video of when Boehiem was ejected, even Jay Bilas said that JB actions were unacceptable and it was his actions that cost the game.

Peace

Right. That's my point. That's the takeaway. When someone's moving towards you aggressively, stop. Move away. Quickly, if necessary.

That didn't happen here.

This is a bit ridiculous.

Officials are not certified ninjas.

I'm glad you said this - I never thought this play was as clear cut and obvious as some people have stated, but I really didn't want to open that can of worms myself.

:(

It's this attitude that gets referees hurt. You can protect yourself easily without being a ninja. Mocking the idea that it's possible to be safe and referee at the same time is just going to lead to more successful assaults.

I too didn't see that it was an "obvious" block because we only have one camera angle and it wasn't the point of the thread. But does anybody really think that would make a difference? I'm skeptical.

Frankly, he didn't have time. Your advice here would have to be applied virtually in every single close game where a coach might have a call go against him. Most of will work 20+ years, calling hundreds of technical fouls on emotional coaches and never have a single coach even consider this sort of assault.

You're talking about self-defense and situational awareness stuff that most will never need. It's good advice, but it would prevent us from getting close to a coach for a quiet discussion.

Had this official done something to escalate the situation, I could see addressing that.

Not at all, and that's another reason I didn't bother bringing it up - the thread was about the reaction, not that the call was blown. I just saw people right away saying it was an obvious blown call and I looked at the video several times and I still wasn't sure. I'm just glad he said it so I don't feel like I was the only one who doesn't see it was that bad of a call. I don't want to hijack the thread with that discussion.

Piling on to that answer, I do believe that the T was coming in to be a barrier between the coach and the L. Which is something I might have done under the same situation. And is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. If he hadn't, then the coach may have had a clear path to the L, who had his back to the coach at that point and may have received a head-butt to the back of his head, which may have been a much worse outcome. I don't think it's realistic that I, as a ref, should ever have to be concerned with my proximity to a coach. If that day comes, it will probably be time to hang it up. We don't get paid enough for that. The only time I have ever worried about being near anyone is after a fight has already broken out - I'm looking to be several feet away from anyone. But that's an entirely different situation.

You know how much I respect you, but I couldn't disagree with you more.

Since the only thing that should happen on the administrative side is arrest/prosecution and the coach/teacher losing his job, I think the *only* discussion here that's worthy is what could have been done differently by the officials -- if only to better prepare us for something like this.

That day is here or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This was (thankfully) still an edge case. It is not a common occurrence, nor is it something that makes me worry. Yet.

It's no less likely than someone in the stands taking out a gun and shooting at people, but I can't worry about that happening either.

For all we know, that might have been the young guy that called the foul and the veteran (Who was said to be the R in this game) came to help him out so that the coach would behave.

Peace

Very true - we can't just assume because the L was older that he was the senior official on the floor. Can't judge a book by its cover.

I should have worded that better. I don't mind discussing how the T was called or where he was standing when he did it. My issue here is, primarily, with those who want to discuss the b/c call itself.

We get plenty of b/c videos every month, enough to learn from and debate until we're all blue in the face. I don't see any value in talking about this particular one. We all miss calls, but we shouldn't be afraid that a missed call is going to result in assault. And we shouldn't need the threat of an assault to want to get these calls right.

Update
 

The DA has recommended that the coach should be cited for harassment, a summary offense that carries a maximum of 90 days in jail (not likely, in this case) and a maximum fine of $300; no simple assault charge.

In the circumstances of what happened, "a person commits the crime of harassment when, with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another, the person strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects the other person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same."

And here is the article from one of the local news stations. It states that he returned to his job as a special education teacher yesterday, but remains suspended as the head basketball coach.

He needs to be fired as coach.

He needs to be fired then more than just a coach.

I was going to try to justify allowing him to continue as teacher, but then remembering that in high school sports, the playing court is an extension of the classroom, I agree.

He needs to be fired as a teacher and a coach.

If his contract as a coach is not connected with him also being a teacher, then it may be difficult to fire him from both since the actions were not related to his role as a teacher.

Yeah, teacher's unions tend to be pretty strong and there's undoubtedly a formal disciplinary process involved in the union contract they have to follow. Even if he is convicted of the criminal charge, it may not be enough to terminate him.

He most likely has a contract for teaching, with a stipend for coaching. They can take his coaching duties away, but as for the classroom there is a process that must be followed.

Sadly, that is all too true.

Update
 

According to the local newspaper, Devine pleaded guilty to summary harassment and received a $300 fine (the maximum) and court costs.

If that school administration has any backbone it should still let him know he's on thin ice, and they should compel him to issue apologies all around, first and foremost to the official he assaulted. Doesn't totally make right, but even if the union would have their hands tied, there's still a way to proceed with humility, class and dignity.

I would not work a game in which he was coaching.

Probably not an issue any more. He was immediately suspended and then fired as Neshaminy coach, and many officials doubt he would ever be allowed to coach another PIAA team.

In the aftermath, I worked several Neshaminy JV and 9th grade games, and everyone was on their best behavior.

More importantly, my children are not attending his class.

Agreed. I'm doubtful that this was his first violent outburst.

According to all I've read and heard, he has a wonderful reputation as a teacher. And, to be fair, I have not heard about previous incidents.

Do you need a lot of incidents to make a judgment?

Peace

Many otherwise normal and professional folks lose their $!! in unexpected ways in the emotion of a sporting event -- a kind of emotionally charged event that doesn't happen in the same way in a classroom. Of course this guy should be sanctioned in his role as coach, and the criminal charges are not inappropriate. But judging an entire teaching career on a single moment on a basketball court is gross overreaching, as is assuming there must have been other misbehavior. Without any indication of inappropriate behavior in a classroom, I'm hard pressed to see why anyone would be stressed about a kid in the class -- I wouldn't. (Nor would I have any problem whatsoever reffing his game unless this was a repeat incident. He f'd up. He probably knows it. He's probably embarrassed by it. And I think it's unlikely to be a repeat. [I also think the school was completely right to fire him as a coach; I just don't see it as necessarily a life-time ban.])

I am going to have to disagree with you big time. This incident revealed character? If someone does not want to be associated or be around that person, that is their choice. Yes he screwed up, but he did so in such a minimal level of importance. It is sports, not life or death. If you act that way in a sport, what will you do when you are involved in something much more important? If an official went up into the stands or assaulted a coach, we would not be talking about them staying as an official and in some cases might result in actions associated with their real job.

I have been on this site for years and have had people try to equate words with what someone should be viewed in their jobs. This guy actually assaulted someone in plain view of everyone. Remember the ESPN correspondent that that was slightly rude to a towing company employee when her car was towed? Well ESPN suspended her for that action. And she did not assault anyone. To me what he did took it too far and if the official had responded with physical action, we would be talking about both of them being in trouble. I have no sympathy for this guy at all and certainly do not get upset at those that want nothing to do with him as a result. He even got mad at the wrong person for the play in question. But after all we know how rational coaches can be when they do not get their way.

Peace

I wasn't making a judgment at all, but merely stating facts in response to speculation.

Wow!
 

I just saw a clip from the DA's press conference and he seemed to be making light of the incident. He said that he felt that the coach was expressing his displeasure with the call but there was no intent to injure him. But then he went on to say that he basically "ran the guy over"! So, it's only harassment, not assault:mad:.

If I lived in that area of Pennsylvania (I live in Central Pa) I would spend the next election season campaigning against the current DA. What an embarrassment! I'll be writing the PIAA asking them to formally protest the action of the DA

So having him fired is the only thing that would make you happy?

Assault
 

Whether he is fired or not is up to his employers. My point is that the DA said that there was no intent to injure, so he did not charge him with assault. I just don't understand how you can say that a head butt is not an intent to injure. Did you watch the clip from the press conference? When the DA talked about him "running over the guy" he acted like it was funny!

There are many discussions about how we as officials are protected from assault under the law but we have a (in my opinion) clear case of someone assaulting an official and he is not charged with assault but harassment. I'm not sure what would be necessary to constitute assault in Philadelphia. Being hit with a chair, kicking, punching? Does blood need to be spilled or is a broken bone OK? I guess every municipality has its own idea of what is or is not assault.

If a citizen did the exact same thing to a police officer, I guarantee he wouldn't be charged with harassment.

Heh.

So,

I've been reading all of the responses and haven't seen this asked......

What if the official had acted in self defense: put the coach on his tail or defended the push/headbutt or some other reaction. I'm sure all hell would have broken loose and there would be no debate what should happen to the official.

As a martial art instructor for 25 years in 2 different disciplines and a boxing background................ who knows how I would have responded. I hope I would have had restraint but I may not have............................I have an issue with any type of physical assault.

Just my 2 cents

He may well have such a reputation. I'm just saying I have a hard time believing this is the first time he's been this stressed.

I also have a hard time believing coaching a basketball team is more stressful than teaching special education students. If I had a special education child in his class, I would have pulled him as soon as I saw this video.

I can't speak for him, but either that or jail time.

Sports creates tension, stress, that reveals character, IMO. I have a difficult time believing, however, that coaching a basketball game is more stressful than teaching special education students on a daily basis.

The charges they filed are a joke.

As a parent of a special needs child, I can say that this may not be so simple. Sometimes there is only 1 Special Ed teacher for a whole school. So I'm glad they fired him - otherwise it would have been a difficult situation for the parents of the kids in his class, assuming he was the only Special Ed teacher in that school.

I'm so glad you can be judge and jury from watching a video clip. Maybe some distinct details would change your mind.

1. Official told admins immediately after the game that he fell because of being shocked and not the coach touching him. When asked if the coach did touch him, the response was "barely".
2. DA charged the coach off of the video evidence solely, as there were no physical injuries, complaint filed by the official, or any other physical evidence. If there hadn't been video he probably wouldn't have even been charged with harassment.
3. Despite your disbelief otherwise this is the first incident like this for the coach/teacher.

So the demonstrative move and contact ("barely" is above "none", which means it can't be tolerated) thoroughly warrant the coach fired from coaching. He shouldn't coach again, but that is up to future employers to decide.

That being said it falls far from something warranting losing his teaching job or getting jail time. I understand not wanting anyone to feel like they can do this to officials in the future, but unfortunately you don't get to crucify this coach's life to make that example.

I'm not judge and jury, I admit that. The DA already did that when he decided not to file assault charges. I'm no DA, so I won't pretend to judge him too harshly. But to consider this behavior anything less than "assault" or even "battery" is laughable. If he's right, the law needs to be changed.

Now I'll address your points.

1. This may take away the battery charge, but not the assault in my view. If a player throws a punch and doesn't connect, it's still fighting. As has been noted, if I threaten to kick your ass, that's classified as assault in most jurisdictions. If, instead of making a verbal threat, I attempt to head butt you, that's still assault even if you manage to avoid all but "barely."

2. The DA taking this lightly (as noted by those who have seen the video) doesn't help this for me, but I'll also note I place some of the blame on how this played out on the official. I know it's his decision whether to press charges, but I think there's an aspect of this that's bigger than this one event. It's his right, but he's doing other officials a disservice, IMO.

3. I never said it wasn't the first "incident." I fully believe that nothing like this has been reported. What I don't believe is that this is the first time he has lost his temper and reacted physically in anger. It may be, I'm just skeptical. More on this when I respond to Smitty in my next post.

As Rich noted above, if someone had done this to a DA or ADA, or a cop, he'd be seeing a lot more than "harassment" charges.

While I'm not all happy with the way this is playing out, I'll acknowledge I'm no where near close enough to the case to know all the details. I also have read up enough on famous "Injustices" to know there are normally details which render them much less of an injustice than people think.

In the end, there's a chance I'll come off the ledge and see the punishment he's received as sufficient. No guarantees, though.

I wasn't aware he was filed. You're likely right. My whole issue is, even if he has never demonstrated this sort of tendency before, or been caught, he has now sufficiently demonstrated to me that he has too much difficulty controlling his temper and his reactions.

I know my son can be extremely difficult in a classroom setting, and his teachers to date have done a tremendous job with him. I wouldn't trust someone with this guy's demonstrated temper to actually help him.

Now, that said, if my son was actually in that school, I'd do more due diligence than just ranting and raving on the internet.

So your position is basically that it's okay for a coach to try to headbutt a referee so long as the referee's reflexes are good enough that he can avoid it.

It wasn't a "demonstrative move;" it was an attempt to injure. That he was charged with anything less than assault is an injustice.

I don't want the coach's life ruined as a result, but slapping him on the wrist isn't right either.

I saw the video. That's enough for me.

The victim should never have input on what charges are filed. Either it's a crime or not a crime and there were enough witnesses (including the film) to see what happened.

And I'll say this again -- I'm perfectly satisfied with the harassment charge -- provided that this would be the charge had the coach did this to ANYONE ELSE -- including the DA, police, a judge, etc. You think that would be the case?

If the coach says it wasn't his intent and the official says he didn't think it was intentional...?
His actions: Intentional & Wrong
His intent to injure: I don't think we can be 100%... but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

And so am I: My is; there are too many coaches up from the bench and inciting players and fans in basketball. You want this to never happen again: Make the coaches sit down the entire game! No way he's headbutting from that bench! I am confident that the foul count and overall emotions in our game will go down when the coaches sit down!

I've worked games where the coaching box wasn't an option. You can bet coaches find a way to get on their feet. This guy would have been up to complain, got his technical foul, and he wouldn't have done anything different. Besides, I'm not inclined to punish all basketball coaches because of one idiot who can't control his temper in the highly stressful situation of a freaking game.

1. I don't take the coach's word for anything in this discussion. Of course he is going to say it wasn't his intent. The video says otherwise. "Demonstrative move?" What the hell was he trying to demonstrate?

2. You don't launch your head, an attempt to headbutt, without putting yourself at risk of assault charges. If he'd thrown a fist, but the official ducked, and then claimed he was just being demonstrative, would you buy that?

How about you watch the video again. It's really simple.

1. Someone who intends to headbutt you drops their chin, if they don't they'd make first contact with their own nose first instead of the forehead. His stays level.

2. Watch the slow motion video. Their head pass each other slightly. Meaning either their faces melded together at contact, or the coach directed his head to the side of the official. The official doesn't move his head to the side, only backward with his body afterwards. You saying the coach just missed?

It was a gesture of intimidation, hence the reason charged with harrasment and why he shouldn't coach again. Or are you still convinced he entirely meant to injure the ref and just missed from about a foot away?

Guilty of harassment.:eek:
Neshaminy High's Jerry Devine pleads guilty to harassment - Bucks News - BucksLocalNews.com