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-   -   Coach appears to headbutt official (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100627-coach-appears-headbutt-official.html)

Adam Thu Feb 04, 2016 06:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 979588)
As a parent of a special needs child, I can say that this may not be so simple. Sometimes there is only 1 Special Ed teacher for a whole school. So I'm glad they fired him - otherwise it would have been a difficult situation for the parents of the kids in his class, assuming he was the only Special Ed teacher in that school.
I wasn't aware he was filed. You're likely right. My whole issue is, even if he has never demonstrated this sort of tendency before, or been caught, he has now sufficiently demonstrated to me that he has too much difficulty controlling his temper and his reactions.

I know my son can be extremely difficult in a classroom setting, and his teachers to date have done a tremendous job with him. I wouldn't trust someone with this guy's demonstrated temper to actually help him.

Now, that said, if my son was actually in that school, I'd do more due diligence than just ranting and raving on the internet.

Eastshire Fri Feb 05, 2016 07:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAlbc (Post 979590)
I'm so glad you can be judge and jury from watching a video clip. Maybe some distinct details would change your mind.

1. Official told admins immediately after the game that he fell because of being shocked and not the coach touching him. When asked if the coach did touch him, the response was "barely".
2. DA charged the coach off of the video evidence solely, as there were no physical injuries, complaint filed by the official, or any other physical evidence. If there hadn't been video he probably wouldn't have even been charged with harassment.
3. Despite your disbelief otherwise this is the first incident like this for the coach/teacher.

So the demonstrative move and contact ("barely" is above "none", which means it can't be tolerated) thoroughly warrant the coach fired from coaching. He shouldn't coach again, but that is up to future employers to decide.

That being said it falls far from something warranting losing his teaching job or getting jail time. I understand not wanting anyone to feel like they can do this to officials in the future, but unfortunately you don't get to crucify this coach's life to make that example.
So your position is basically that it's okay for a coach to try to headbutt a referee so long as the referee's reflexes are good enough that he can avoid it.

It wasn't a "demonstrative move;" it was an attempt to injure. That he was charged with anything less than assault is an injustice.

I don't want the coach's life ruined as a result, but slapping him on the wrist isn't right either.

Rich Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAlbc (Post 979590)
I'm so glad you can be judge and jury from watching a video clip. Maybe some distinct details would change your mind.

1. Official told admins immediately after the game that he fell because of being shocked and not the coach touching him. When asked if the coach did touch him, the response was "barely".
2. DA charged the coach off of the video evidence solely, as there were no physical injuries, complaint filed by the official, or any other physical evidence. If there hadn't been video he probably wouldn't have even been charged with harassment.
3. Despite your disbelief otherwise this is the first incident like this for the coach/teacher.

So the demonstrative move and contact ("barely" is above "none", which means it can't be tolerated) thoroughly warrant the coach fired from coaching. He shouldn't coach again, but that is up to future employers to decide.

That being said it falls far from something warranting losing his teaching job or getting jail time. I understand not wanting anyone to feel like they can do this to officials in the future, but unfortunately you don't get to crucify this coach's life to make that example.
I saw the video. That's enough for me.

The victim should never have input on what charges are filed. Either it's a crime or not a crime and there were enough witnesses (including the film) to see what happened.

And I'll say this again -- I'm perfectly satisfied with the harassment charge -- provided that this would be the charge had the coach did this to ANYONE ELSE -- including the DA, police, a judge, etc. You think that would be the case?

Refhoop Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 979640)
So your position is basically that it's okay for a coach to try to headbutt a referee so long as the referee's reflexes are good enough that he can avoid it.

It wasn't a "demonstrative move;" it was an attempt to injure. That he was charged with anything less than assault is an injustice.

I don't want the coach's life ruined as a result, but slapping him on the wrist isn't right either.
If the coach says it wasn't his intent and the official says he didn't think it was intentional...?
His actions: Intentional & Wrong
His intent to injure: I don't think we can be 100%... but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

And so am I: My is; there are too many coaches up from the bench and inciting players and fans in basketball. You want this to never happen again: Make the coaches sit down the entire game! No way he's headbutting from that bench! I am confident that the foul count and overall emotions in our game will go down when the coaches sit down!

Adam Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refhoop (Post 979678)
If the coach says it wasn't his intent and the official says he didn't think it was intentional...?
His actions: Intentional & Wrong
His intent to injure: I don't think we can be 100%... but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

And so am I: My is; there are too many coaches up from the bench and inciting players and fans in basketball. You want this to never happen again: Make the coaches sit down the entire game! No way he's headbutting from that bench! I am confident that the foul count and overall emotions in our game will go down when the coaches sit down!
I've worked games where the coaching box wasn't an option. You can bet coaches find a way to get on their feet. This guy would have been up to complain, got his technical foul, and he wouldn't have done anything different. Besides, I'm not inclined to punish all basketball coaches because of one idiot who can't control his temper in the highly stressful situation of a freaking game.

1. I don't take the coach's word for anything in this discussion. Of course he is going to say it wasn't his intent. The video says otherwise. "Demonstrative move?" What the hell was he trying to demonstrate?

2. You don't launch your head, an attempt to headbutt, without putting yourself at risk of assault charges. If he'd thrown a fist, but the official ducked, and then claimed he was just being demonstrative, would you buy that?

PAlbc Fri Feb 05, 2016 02:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 979640)
So your position is basically that it's okay for a coach to try to headbutt a referee so long as the referee's reflexes are good enough that he can avoid it.

It wasn't a "demonstrative move;" it was an attempt to injure. That he was charged with anything less than assault is an injustice.
How about you watch the video again. It's really simple.

1. Someone who intends to headbutt you drops their chin, if they don't they'd make first contact with their own nose first instead of the forehead. His stays level.

2. Watch the slow motion video. Their head pass each other slightly. Meaning either their faces melded together at contact, or the coach directed his head to the side of the official. The official doesn't move his head to the side, only backward with his body afterwards. You saying the coach just missed?

It was a gesture of intimidation, hence the reason charged with harrasment and why he shouldn't coach again. Or are you still convinced he entirely meant to injure the ref and just missed from about a foot away?

Jim Henry Mon Feb 08, 2016 02:00pm
Guilty of harassment.:eek:
Neshaminy High's Jerry Devine pleads guilty to harassment - Bucks News - BucksLocalNews.com


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