Legal Pick and roll

[BigT]

When is a pick and roll an illegal screen and when is it a great offensive play?

I am looking to some vets who have seen this enough they can help me with the difference and then I can tell the coach why the call/no call.

Thanks in advance!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigT

When is a pick and roll an illegal screen and when is it a great offensive play?

I am looking to some vets who have seen this enough they can help me with the difference and then I can tell the coach why the call/no call.

Thanks in advance!

Essentially, the roller must lead the movement. If the defender has gone under or is attempting to go under the screen to stay with the opponent they were guarding, any movement by the screener into the defender or into the path the defender is trying to take is (potentially) an illegal screen.

The roll, if legally done, happens fast, before the defender has a chance to adjust his/her path. If the screener holds too long before rolling, the likelihood of it becoming illegal increases.

You also have to judge whether the defenders are switching or whether the screened player is still trying to cover their original matchup. If you judge they have switched, the pick/roll is not really a screen any more as a new defender took over the defensive responsibilities. The player that was being screened is now a guard covering the rolling player and is subject to the rules of guarding....meaning the rolling movement above that could have been an illegal screen is no longer an illegal screen.

Note, all of the above is contingent on their being CONTACT on the potentially illegal screen that prevents/delays the defender continuing to guard the opponent.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BigT

When is a pick and roll an illegal screen and when is it a great offensive play?

I am looking to some vets who have seen this enough they can help me with the difference and then I can tell the coach why the call/no call.

Thanks in advance!

It can be a tough call. Proper pick and roll is a pick by A1. A2 dribbles right past A1's shoulder. Defender of A2 will either run into the screen, go under or trail A2 over the top. Once A2 dribbles past the pick, A1 is supposed to roll. I will see what A1 does with the roll. Usually, the dribbler's defender is already under, stopped by screen or going over top. If he hasnt made it under i will watch the roll and see if A1 went looking for A2's defender and if he doesnt go looking for him then i will see what kind of contact there is...it is a "have to see it" play for me.

I actually view the screener who rolls before the dribbler goes past him with a closer eye. That's not what a screen/pick and roll is...If he rolls early and takes out the dribbler's man im more apt to call the illegal screen. In my experience, if the screener holds the pick, there wont be significant contact when he rolls. you still have to watch it obviously.

Here's an illegal pick-and-roll I called a few weeks ago: https://streamable.com/t96l

What made this illegal was the screener rolling into the defender, not away from the screened player like they do in college and the NBA.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BigT

When is a pick and roll an illegal screen and when is it a great offensive play?

I am looking to some vets who have seen this enough they can help me with the difference and then I can tell the coach why the call/no call.

Thanks in advance!

Obviously, pick and roll situations can involve different factors to consider so I’m taking what might be the most common pick and roll situation where a team is running its half-court offense. A screen is set short of contact at the side of a stationary defender who is guarding the player with the ball.

Generally, I consider this pick and roll as two separate offensive actions. Once the screener rolls out of the legally set screening position, I would regard the screen to have ended. I give the benefit of any doubt to the player that has simply turned away from a defender to run toward the basket as part of a legal fundamental offensive play. However, if the roll begins too late, the offensive player might illegally run into the defender who is already getting around underneath. I would call this a charging foul rather than an illegal screen. This seems much simpler and easier to me and, in effect, (not that it matters that much) coaches would have no basis for protesting, “How can that be an illegal screen? (“It wasn’t, coach. It was a charge.”) “But he was just rolling to the basket!” (“I know. And he rolled right into that defender.”) Easy to explain to the coach of the team that had the ball. Now, if the roll is done correctly, Camron said, “it happens fast” and, it must be well-timed. If the defender intends to go underneath the legal screen, he must first turn and a take a step back toward the basket, right? Knowing this, the screener times it so that the first step of the roll toward the basket coincides or is even slightly before the first step of the defender-meaning, the first step or two of each player would basically be going in the same direction. As the official, I don’t believe I can judge at that instant if there is an intended path of the defender being cut off, or, as Camron said, if the defender is just staying with the roll. Both players, at that exact moment are basically moving in the same direction in parallel pathways. Any contact most likely would be incidental just as it would anytime two opponents without the ball are moving side by side down the floor. That is how it can be explained to the coach of the defending team who wants to know “Why the no call?”
In my opinion, it’s not a “pick/roll.” It’s a pick and roll. Two separate offensive actions. I try to judge each one accordingly.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here's an illegal pick-and-roll I called a few weeks ago: https://streamable.com/t96l

What made this illegal was the screener rolling into the defender, not away from the screened player like they do in college and the NBA.

I think this was a good call because the screener stepped into the path of a moving defender without allowing time and distance. However, I would not refer to this play as a pick and roll. As a former player and coach, as you may be as well, a pick and roll is an offensive play where the screener rolls out of his stance continually moving toward the basket with the intention of receiving a pass for a potential score. The screener in your situation did not do that. You correctly called an illegal screen but; it was not a pick and roll play in my opinion. Great instructional clip by the way. Thanks for posting it.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Essentially, the roller must lead the movement. If the defender has gone under or is attempting to go under the screen to stay with the opponent they were guarding, any movement by the screener into the defender or into the path the defender is trying to take is (potentially) an illegal screen.

The roll, if legally done, happens fast, before the defender has a chance to adjust his/her path. If the screener holds too long before rolling, the likelihood of it becoming illegal increases.

You also have to judge whether the defenders are switching or whether the screened player is still trying to cover their original matchup. If you judge they have switched, the pick/roll is not really a screen any more as a new defender took over the defensive responsibilities. The player that was being screened is now a guard covering the rolling player and is subject to the rules of guarding....meaning the rolling movement above that could have been an illegal screen is no longer an illegal screen.

Note, all of the above is contingent on their being CONTACT on the potentially illegal screen that prevents/delays the defender continuing to guard the opponent.

Cameron that was awesome thanks so much.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by BigCat

It can be a tough call. Proper pick and roll is a pick by A1. A2 dribbles right past A1's shoulder. Defender of A2 will either run into the screen, go under or trail A2 over the top. Once A2 dribbles past the pick, A1 is supposed to roll. I will see what A1 does with the roll. Usually, the dribbler's defender is already under, stopped by screen or going over top. If he hasnt made it under i will watch the roll and see if A1 went looking for A2's defender and if he doesnt go looking for him then i will see what kind of contact there is...it is a "have to see it" play for me.

I actually view the screener who rolls before the dribbler goes past him with a closer eye. That's not what a screen/pick and roll is...If he rolls early and takes out the dribbler's man im more apt to call the illegal screen. In my experience, if the screener holds the pick, there wont be significant contact when he rolls. you still have to watch it obviously.

Thanks BigCat

[BigT]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here's an illegal pick-and-roll I called a few weeks ago: https://streamable.com/t96l

What made this illegal was the screener rolling into the defender, not away from the screened player like they do in college and the NBA.

What an awesome video AremRed!

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here's an illegal pick-and-roll I called a few weeks ago: https://streamable.com/t96l

What made this illegal was the screener rolling into the defender, not away from the screened player like they do in college and the NBA.

Good get. A few suggestions. One solid strong whistle, rather than two tweets. Don't be married to the sideline as C. Move onto the court some and then close in on play after whistle, rather than walk away from the play. Also, your signaling mechanic needs work.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Obviously, pick and roll situations can involve different factors to consider so I’m taking what might be the most common pick and roll situation where a team is running its half-court offense. A screen is set short of contact at the side of a stationary defender who is guarding the player with the ball.

Generally, I consider this pick and roll as two separate offensive actions. Once the screener rolls out of the legally set screening position, I would regard the screen to have ended. I give the benefit of any doubt to the player that has simply turned away from a defender to run toward the basket as part of a legal fundamental offensive play. However, if the roll begins too late, the offensive player might illegally run into the defender who is already getting around underneath. I would call this a charging foul rather than an illegal screen. This seems much simpler and easier to me and, in effect, (not that it matters that much) coaches would have no basis for protesting, “How can that be an illegal screen? (“It wasn’t, coach. It was a charge.”) “But he was just rolling to the basket!” (“I know. And he rolled right into that defender.”) Easy to explain to the coach of the team that had the ball. Now, if the roll is done correctly, Camron said, “it happens fast” and, it must be well-timed. If the defender intends to go underneath the legal screen, he must first turn and a take a step back toward the basket, right? Knowing this, the screener times it so that the first step of the roll toward the basket coincides or is even slightly before the first step of the defender-meaning, the first step or two of each player would basically be going in the same direction. As the official, I don’t believe I can judge at that instant if there is an intended path of the defender being cut off, or, as Camron said, if the defender is just staying with the roll. Both players, at that exact moment are basically moving in the same direction in parallel pathways. Any contact most likely would be incidental just as it would anytime two opponents without the ball are moving side by side down the floor. That is how it can be explained to the coach of the defending team who wants to know “Why the no call?”
In my opinion, it’s not a “pick/roll.” It’s a pick and roll. Two separate offensive actions. I try to judge each one accordingly.

Thanks Billy great comments.

[reffish]

I started to use a phrase overheard at clinics in Atlanta, you can pick to screen, but you cannot roll to screen. AremRed clip is a good example of rolling to pick.

[deecee]

Good call. Generally speaking if the screener keeps the defender on his back when he rolls then its good. If the screener turns into the defender and the defender is now in front of him its no good.

Also you don't have to close in on this, nor do you need to get off the sideline as C. You move off the sideline if all 10 players (or maybe 8) are on the other side of the court. For the most part you won't have to. You also don't have to close in on this type of play. You did fine. Blew the whistle (1 solid whistle is preferred) made the call and go back to being the C.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Here's an illegal pick-and-roll I called a few weeks ago: https://streamable.com/t96l

What made this illegal was the screener rolling into the defender, not away from the screened player like they do in college and the NBA.

Your trail didn't seem to interested. He should have had a whistle.

Ps. You look a little heavy. You should run some extra laps

Originally Posted by johnny d

Good get. A few suggestions. One solid strong whistle, rather than two tweets. Don't be married to the sideline as C. Move onto the court some and then close in on play after whistle, rather than walk away from the play. Also, your signaling mechanic needs work.

Originally Posted by deecee

Good call. Generally speaking if the screener keeps the defender on his back when he rolls then its good. If the screener turns into the defender and the defender is now in front of him its no good.

Also you don't have to close in on this, nor do you need to get off the sideline as C. You move off the sideline if all 10 players (or maybe 8) are on the other side of the court. For the most part you won't have to. You also don't have to close in on this type of play. You did fine. Blew the whistle (1 solid whistle is preferred) made the call and go back to being the C.

Thanks for your advice guys! I personally like a couple of tweets on offensive fouls, especially ones like this that may not be super obvious. I think it helps sell the call.

johnny d, I would agree with your comments under other circumstances but I don't think this is a play where I should have been on the court more at Slot or closed down to the play. It's a run-of-the-mill illegal screen. If it were a harder screen and bodies were on the floor then I would certainly close down but didn't feel a big reaction was necessary for a small play. I don't see how I am walking away from the play, I am walking past it to go report. I do agree that my signalling mechanic needs work, I didn't like when I was pointing one way and pointing back at the player who fouled at the same time.