Two Entire Rosters Suspended

[JetMetFan]

This page has a slightly longer version of the video.

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/hi...d4ac9e6c6.html

Taken it a vacuum it appears there wasn't anything out of the ordinary as far as the officials were concerned. There was a rebound. B#14 and W#11 battled for it. A held ball was called (correctly, IMO). W#11 shoved B#14. The L gave a T to W#11...then all heck broke loose.

[Refhoop]

Sub varsity game:Very often there is only one coach and he left the other immature minors to run on the court... likely they will follow him - unfortunately.
So to "stir the pot"
Do we really need the coach on the floor for a fight?
I was at the NASO conference in STL this summer and during a presentation, an attorney said: Good officials Don't let athletes fight during their game"... He goes on to say: Don't think you won't be sued if a kid gets hurt during that fight and there's video footage of you standing there watching.
His illustration was NBA officals: Arguably the best officials in our game.
His question: Do you ever see NBA Officials backing away from a fight?
Answer: Hell no! They are dealing with the strongest basketball players in the world and they stop the fight - always!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Sub varsity game:Very often there is only one coach and he left the other immature minors to run on the court... likely they will follow him - unfortunately.

So to "stir the pot"

This was a varsity game.

I'd be interested to know which team the coach in the gray shirt and tie belonged too. He seemed to want to blame the lead official for what happened by standing there pointing at him and running his mouth as things were being restored to some semblance of order.

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Do you ever see NBA Officials backing away from a fight?

Answer: Hell no! They are dealing with the strongest basketball players in the world and they stop the fight - always!

Close. You won't see Violet or Laura getting in there -- they have instructed not to.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Close. You won't see Violet or Laura getting in there -- they have instructed not to.

Laura?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Sub varsity game:Very often there is only one coach and he left the other immature minors to run on the court... likely they will follow him - unfortunately.
So to "stir the pot"
Do we really need the coach on the floor for a fight?
I was at the NASO conference in STL this summer and during a presentation, an attorney said: Good officials Don't let athletes fight during their game"... He goes on to say: Don't think you won't be sued if a kid gets hurt during that fight and there's video footage of you standing there watching.
His illustration was NBA officals: Arguably the best officials in our game.
His question: Do you ever see NBA Officials backing away from a fight?
Answer: Hell no! They are dealing with the strongest basketball players in the world and they stop the fight - always!

You're just as likely to get sued for grabbing a 16 y/o kid and pulling him away from a fight.

You're just as likely to get sued for grabbing a 16 y/o kid and leaving him exposed to a punch from the opponent.

Once the punches start getting thrown, nothing you do is going to be sue-proof, so take down numbers and stay out of the way. Keep blowing your whistle, use your voice, but I would be very wary of getting into the fray to break it up once it's started.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're just as likely to get sued for grabbing a 16 y/o kid and pulling him away from a fight.

You're just as likely to get sued for grabbing a 16 y/o kid and leaving him exposed to a punch from the opponent.

Once the punches start getting thrown, nothing you do is going to be sue-proof, so take down numbers and stay out of the way. Keep blowing your whistle, use your voice, but I would be very wary of getting into the fray to break it up once it's started.

I agree completely.

Rule number one: NEVER put your hands on a player.

If I can get between them before they start swinging I will, but once the punches start, no way. As Adam said, use your whistle and voice.

And if I'm the away official I'm not going to go running into the fray, but will go near the table and instruct the scorer to write down the color/number of every player I see leave the bench and enter the court as I verbally recite them.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I agree completely.

Rule number one: NEVER put your hands on a player.

If I can get between them before they start swinging I will, but once the punches start, no way. As Adam said, use your whistle and voice.

I willing to bet that the same litigious jerk that would sue you for pulling the kid away, will sue you if that same kid got hurt in the fight.
Notice the coach: pointing and seemingly blaming.
Go ahead and say to the suit happy lawyer and parent: "not it'. I'm betting, "You're it" - like it or not!

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

I willing to bet that the same litigious jerk that would sue you for pulling the kid away, will sue you if that same kid got hurt in the fight.
Notice the coach: pointing and seemingly blaming.
Go ahead and say to the suit happy lawyer and parent: "not it'. I'm betting, "You're it" - like it or not!

You might want to rethink what your scope of practice is as an official.

We are employed as game officials, not as trained police officers, security guards or bouncers, and acting as such would more likely open an official up to liability for acting outside their scope of practice. Just like we never render aid to a possibly injured player - that's the coach's and trainer's responsibility.

Maintaining order in the facility and providing adequate security is the responsibility of game management - even more so when fans get involved. The head coaches are responsible for their players, and the gym supervisor and security/police for everyone else.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You might want to rethink what your scope of practice is as an official.

We are employed as game officials, not as trained police officers, security guards or bouncers, and acting as such would more likely open an official up to liability for acting outside their scope of practice. Just like we never render aid to a possibly injured player - that's the coach's and trainer's responsibility.

Maintaining order in the facility and providing adequate security is the responsibility of game management - even more so when fans get involved. The head coaches are responsible for their players, and the gym supervisor and security/police for everyone else.

Are we not the police of the game on the court w/ our number one job being: Player Safety?
I didn't say police the entire gym: just the safety of the players on the floor which is where I have jurisdiction.
When safety is number one; how do we justify ourselves by doing nothing?
Our high school rule book says: safety, fair play and sportsmanship is the reason we are there!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

I willing to bet that the same litigious jerk that would sue you for pulling the kid away, will sue you if that same kid got hurt in the fight.
Notice the coach: pointing and seemingly blaming.
Go ahead and say to the suit happy lawyer and parent: "not it'. I'm betting, "You're it" - like it or not!

The suit may be equally likely either way (I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to concede that point for discussion.)

But it seems to me, from the perspective of a father who is not an actual lawyer, that the likelihood of a successful suit would be much higher if I put my hands on a kid as opposed to doing everything verbally and audibly to stop a fight.

Again, there's no way in hell I'm putting my hands on a kid to physically move him or her in this situation.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Close. You won't see Violet or Laura getting in there -- they have instructed not to.

Originally Posted by Rich

Laura?

I think he meant Lauren Holtkamp.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

The suit may be equally likely either way (I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to concede that point for discussion.)

But it seems to me, from the perspective of a father who is not an actual lawyer, that the likelihood of a successful suit would be much higher if I put my hands on a kid as opposed to doing everything verbally and audibly to stop a fight.

Again, there's no way in hell I'm putting my hands on a kid to physically move him or her in this situation.

Where is this written: "never touch a player"? Have there been lawsuits resulting from officials breaking up fights?
BTW: I do like whistles and yelling at players. I say, blow the whistle till their all deaf.
But... standing back and doing nothing like the L official in the video?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Sub varsity game:Very often there is only one coach and he left the other immature minors to run on the court... likely they will follow him - unfortunately.
So to "stir the pot"
Do we really need the coach on the floor for a fight?
I was at the NASO conference in STL this summer and during a presentation, an attorney said: Good officials Don't let athletes fight during their game"... He goes on to say: Don't think you won't be sued if a kid gets hurt during that fight and there's video footage of you standing there watching.
His illustration was NBA officals: Arguably the best officials in our game.
His question: Do you ever see NBA Officials backing away from a fight?
Answer: Hell no! They are dealing with the strongest basketball players in the world and they stop the fight - always!

That attorney's a ****ing idiot. They can sue all they want--it isn't going anywhere. Now, if a kid gets hurt because you try to break up a fight and either injure him or contribute to another injuring him...those would hold more water.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Matt

That attorney's a ****ing idiot. They can sue all they want--it isn't going anywhere. Now, if a kid gets hurt because you try to break up a fight and either injure him or contribute to another injuring him...those would hold more water.

I could call Alan Goldberger a lot of things, but an ****ing idiot would be near the bottom of that list. He's the preeminent attorney when it comes to sports officiating matters and he knows what he's talking about.