Over and Back ?

[Karl M Johanson]

NFHS rules:
A1 has a throw in along the sideline, the throw in touches A2 in A's front court and bounces into back court where it is touched by A3. Is it Over and Back?

I believe that when the rule was changed to create team control fouls the rule makers then had to rule that the ball was in team control during a throw in and thus this possibly changed the ruling to over and back. However, the rules now state that for it to be O & B the ball must first be in Team Control "in the front court." But a throw in is from out of bounds and therefore has no status.

It will be over and back if the touch by A2 establishes team control in the front court and is the last touch in front court all at the same time.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson

NFHS rules:
A1 has a throw in along the sideline, the throw in touches A2 in A's front court and bounces into back court where it is touched by A3. Is it Over and Back?

I believe that when the rule was changed to create team control fouls the rule makers then had to rule that the ball was in team control during a throw in and thus this possibly changed the ruling to over and back. However, the rules now state that for it to be O & B the ball must first be in Team Control "in the front court." But a throw in is from out of bounds and therefore has no status.

It will be over and back if the touch by A2 establishes team control in the front court and is the last touch in front court all at the same time.

No violation.

The NFHS really messed up the this area but has made it clear that there should be no change in the way backcourt violations are to be called.

There must be team control inbounds by the OLD definition of team control before the backcourt violation rules are in effect.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson

NFHS rules:
A1 has a throw in along the sideline, the throw in touches A2 in A's front court and bounces into back court where it is touched by A3. Is it Over and Back?

I believe that when the rule was changed to create team control fouls the rule makers then had to rule that the ball was in team control during a throw in and thus this possibly changed the ruling to over and back. However, the rules now state that for it to be O & B the ball must first be in Team Control "in the front court." But a throw in is from out of bounds and therefore has no status.

It will be over and back if the touch by A2 establishes team control in the front court and is the last touch in front court all at the same time.

They need verbiage to state that PC is required inbounds before any BC violation can occur.

[ODog]

... and the title of this thread needs to be changed to "Backcourt?"

"Over and back" needs to disappear along with other hacky fanspeak phrases like "over the back," "reaching in," "on the floor," etc.

And sadly, these get a TON of use in our fraternity too

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by ODog

... and the title of this thread needs to be changed to "Backcourt?"

"Over and back" needs to disappear along with other hacky fanspeak phrases like "over the back," "reaching in," "on the floor," etc.

And sadly, these get a TON of use in our fraternity too

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by ODog

... and the title of this thread needs to be changed to "Backcourt?"

"Over and back" needs to disappear along with other hacky fanspeak phrases like "over the back," "reaching in," "on the floor," etc.

And sadly, these get a TON of use in our fraternity too

I agree. "Over and back", just sounds bad.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

They need verbiage to state that PC is required inbounds before any BC violation can occur.

scrapper offered the perfect solution at the time: mirror the NCAA wording.

TC is not changed, but TC fouls include fouls committed by members of the TI team during a TI.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

scrapper offered the perfect solution at the time: mirror the NCAA wording.

TC is not changed, but TC fouls include fouls committed by members of the TI team during a TI.

Exactly. Pretty much how fouls by an airborne shooter are considered PC fouls even though there is no PC.

But, what about after the throwin is touched inbounds but before there is control. That is no longer "during" the throwin. Need to have words in effect to cover the window between when the throwin ends and when there is really team control.

[Karl M Johanson]

I am glad the discussion returned to my question about backcourt violations (I quickly learned not to use meaningless "old school" terms and phrases). As I originally alluded to I believe that the backcourt violation interpretation was not sufficiently updated when NFHS created "team control fouls" and then had to quickly rule that there was "team control" during throw ins. It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson

...It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.

It doesn't need to be in the FC, just inbounds at some point.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson

I am glad the discussion returned to my question about backcourt violations (I quickly learned not to use meaningless "old school" terms and phrases). As I originally alluded to I believe that the backcourt violation interpretation was not sufficiently updated when NFHS created "team control fouls" and then had to quickly rule that there was "team control" during throw ins. It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.

This is a problem many here have predicted each year as the NFHS failed to adequately fix the rule to match their (repeatedly) stated intention: not affecting anything except whether free throws are shot.

[BlueDevilRef]

Not to hijack but for those of you who don't like "on the floor", what do you use or prefer? I don't mind it. I know that every call technically happens "on the floor" but I still catch myself using it at times. I try to wave off and say "before the shot" but old habits die hard.


I wish I had a cool signature

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Not to hijack but for those of you who don't like "on the floor", what do you use or prefer? I don't mind it. I know that every call technically happens "on the floor" but I still catch myself using it at times. I try to wave off and say "before the shot" but old habits die hard.


I wish I had a cool signature

I occasionally let "on the floor" slip out. But I also try "on the dribble", "before the shot", "no shot".

[SC Official]

Oh, no! ANOTHER backcourt thread?

(Not a violation per NFHS interp.)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Not to hijack but for those of you who don't like "on the floor", what do you use or prefer? I don't mind it. I know that every call technically happens "on the floor" but I still catch myself using it at times. I try to wave off and say "before the shot" but old habits die hard.


I wish I had a cool signature

"No shot"