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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Over and Back ? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100516-over-back.html)

Adam Wed Dec 16, 2015 05:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad (Post 973172)
It is an option, but not necessarily a good one. Every official knows what their partner means, whether you're going to admit it or not is something else.

As for good methods, anything that lets your partners/players/coaches know the player wasn't in the act of shooting. Some sort of, "NO SHOT!" tends to be the best since it applies to so many situations.

"On the floor" can make you look like an idiot. Players jumps and your call on the foul is that he was passing the ball, not shooting. The moment you say "ON THE FLOOR!" you're going to get murdered. You just told everyone you thought the obvious airborne passer(shooter in their eyes) was on the floor.
My biggest issue with "on the floor" is that most of the time, the shooting motion begins discernibly before the player leaves the floor. It actually means nothing and perpetuates a myth. It really is similar, in my view, to "over the back" and "reaching in" being used by officials.

Mark Padgett Wed Dec 16, 2015 07:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner (Post 973148)
Could be worse...you could end up with an interrupted dribble.
As long as "illegal use of hands" and "holding" are allowed, I'm OK. :rolleyes:

WhistlesAndStripes Wed Dec 16, 2015 08:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 973113)
Not to hijack but for those of you who don't like "on the floor", what do you use or prefer? I don't mind it. I know that every call technically happens "on the floor" but I still catch myself using it at times. I try to wave off and say "before the shot" but old habits die hard.
The reason you don't say "On The Floor" around here is because we have one smartass official who, if you do, at halftime or after the game will ask you, "WHY DID YOU CALL THAT FOUL ON THE FLOOR? WHAT DID THE FLOOR DO?!?!?!?":D

Karl M Johanson Wed Dec 16, 2015 09:18pm
Agree new wording needed
 
I am glad the discussion returned to my question about backcourt violations (I quickly learned not to use meaningless "old school" terms and phrases). As I originally alluded to I believe that the backcourt violation interpretation was not sufficiently updated when NFHS created "team control fouls" and then had to quickly rule that there was "team control" during throw ins. It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.

BlueDevilRef Wed Dec 16, 2015 09:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 973231)
The reason you don't say "On The Floor" around here is because we have one smartass official who, if you do, at halftime or after the game will ask you, "WHY DID YOU CALL THAT FOUL ON THE FLOOR? WHAT DID THE FLOOR DO?!?!?!?":D

Ha!! That's funny and will be very helpful in not using that phrase anymore. I'll hopefully recall that the floor can't foul anyone.


I wish I had a cool signature

Raymond Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson (Post 973236)
...It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.
It doesn't need to be in the FC, just inbounds at some point.

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Adam Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl M Johanson (Post 973236)
I am glad the discussion returned to my question about backcourt violations (I quickly learned not to use meaningless "old school" terms and phrases). As I originally alluded to I believe that the backcourt violation interpretation was not sufficiently updated when NFHS created "team control fouls" and then had to quickly rule that there was "team control" during throw ins. It would be much clearer if the rules clearly stated that has to be player control in front court after a throw in.
This is a problem many here have predicted each year as the NFHS failed to adequately fix the rule to match their (repeatedly) stated intention: not affecting anything except whether free throws are shot.

SC Official Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 973165)
All I'm saying is that judgements and generalizations do not help anyone. But forgive me for not remembering that a few guys on here are the best referees ever and have never messed anything up and can only be bothered to leave the house to work Duke vs Carolina.

In my very humble opinion, you could use a very real dose of humility. If you read my post, I stated I was aware that I needed to try to get rid of the statement and simply asked what some of the other phrases were that guys used. Nobody needs you to imply they are a lesser official or a fanboy. But I'll wear that mantle proudly. It's why I'm here. Trying to get better and hell yes I'm a fan. I love this game, it's one of the reasons I call.
Don't be ridiculous. This is a forum for grown adults who often have differing opinions. I didn't bully you, or call you a fanboy. But yes, often fanboys are the ones yelling "on the floor." And I'm only a high school official, and I'm not afraid to admit it, so you can take your Duke-UNC comment elsewhere.

Don't attack my humility because you got butthurt about me making a statement that upset you.

SC Official Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 973133)
Camps I attend only care about that verbiage when the rule is being kicked. If the official making that ruling is correct, then observers/supervisors don't care.
Any camp I've ever been to, clinicians most certainly care about an official saying "on the floor." But you and I go to different types of camps I'm sure.

Dad Fri Dec 18, 2015 01:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 973354)
Any camp I've ever been to, clinicians most certainly care about an official saying "on the floor." But you and I go to different types of camps I'm sure.
How would you even know this? What does different types of camps mean?

SC Official Fri Dec 18, 2015 01:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad (Post 973355)
How would you even know this? What does different types of camps mean?
Because I've been to my fair share of camps and not one clinician that I remember has failed to correct an official using "on the floor"?


College vs. high school

Dad Fri Dec 18, 2015 01:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 973357)
Because I've been to my fair share of camps and not one clinician that I remember has failed to correct an official using "on the floor"?


College vs. high school
I can't recall this ever happening at a camp. Then again, I can't recall anyone ever saying "on the floor" at a camp.

BillyMac Fri Dec 18, 2015 07:26am
You Don't Say ...
 
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post927149

BlueDevilRef Fri Dec 18, 2015 08:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 973120)
"On the floor" is fanboy and wreck league talk.

Didn't call me a fanboy? Weird how that is exactly what you did and now deny it.

If you don't like the verbiage, I was looking for input on what words you use, not to be insulted. I'm not butthurt, but I'm not going to be chastised either.

Contrary to popular belief around here at times, it's pretty easy to not be a jerk when replying


I wish I had a cool signature


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