So...is the term "extended arm bar" unclear?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is why I don't raise my arm for a mirrored chop until after the ball is at the disposal of the thrower in.

Yup, me too.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is why I don't raise my arm for a mirrored chop until after the ball is at the disposal of the thrower in.

I also do this. And typically, if I need to tell my partners to hold up, I will put both my hands up so that they don't incorrectly assume I am raising my arm for a mirrored chop.

I still want to know this though: If you are administering the throw-in and your partner is doing anything to tell you he is not ready, why can you not figure that out on your own??

I don't need anyone to tell me they have counted 10 because I've already done it.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I also do this. And typically, if I need to tell my partners to hold up, I will put both my hands up so that they don't incorrectly assume I am raising my arm for a mirrored chop.

I still want to know this though: If you are administering the throw-in and your partner is doing anything to tell you he is not ready, why can you not figure that out on your own??

I don't need anyone to tell me they have counted 10 because I've already done it.

Maybe there is a sub approaching the table you didn't see, or maybe there is a player finishing up a quick shoe lace tie that you didn't see, or maybe the third official is taking care of something 80 ft away that you might not immediately recognize...this list could go on. But, that is the idea. I've yet to work with an omniscient partner. Nor am I. So good communication - verbal and non verbal - is always essential.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I worked a NF game with a ref who would hold up two hands with open palms and fingers spread apart at me when I was giving the ball for a throw in after a substitution. I presumed that was his way of telling me "OK, we now have 10 players in the game, go ahead and start throw-in." Later he told me that two hands up meant "stop/pause", I told him that his mechanic was confusing.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What does having two hands up to stop play have to do with college or HS mechanics? Can you show me where in the NFHS signal chart that holding up two hands with open palms and fingers spread apart is the signal for 10 players being on the court?

I don't think that he can, because the signal you describe is labelled on the NFHS Signal chart as the signal to indicate a 10 second backcourt violation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Two hands up, palms facing a partner typically means "I've counted 10 on the court." where I'm from.

A single raised arm with open palm is the stop or "do not proceed yet" sign.

A point or thumbs up is the "good to go" sign.

Those are all things I see in my area from officials at every level....H.S. NAIA and NCAA.

Originally Posted by deecee

You have an, "I've counted 10 signal"? I thought Hand/hands up means hold on and hands down means lets play.

While it isn't official and most don't use that signal....there are some around here that do exactly that....two hands up in front of them to indicated they have counted 10. I don't do it, but I've seen it done a few times a year. It is an incorrect mechanic and certainly far from clear and consistent.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is why I don't raise my arm for a mirrored chop until after the ball is at the disposal of the thrower in.

Same here.....

[Eastshire]

There's nothing wrong with communicating with your partners that you have counted the players. If there's one thing we can learn from soccer referee Graham Poll, it's not to assume you or your partners can count to two.

I have never seen a one-handed stop signal that could be mistaken for the pre-time chop signal. The first is done shoulder height with the arm extended to the front; the second with the arm fully extended above the head. No reasonable person is going to mistake these two signals.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I have never seen a one-handed stop signal that could be mistaken for the pre-time chop signal. The first is done shoulder height with the arm extended to the front; the second with the arm fully extended above the head. No reasonable person is going to mistake these two signals.

If those two signals were universal, that would be true. However, i see as many people who use a hand straight up for both as have a difference in the signals.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If those two signals were universal, that would be true. However, i see as many people who use a hand straight up for both as have a difference in the signals.

Fair enough. Personally, I've never seen someone use the same signal for both.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Fair enough. Personally, I've never seen someone use the same signal for both.

I've seen plenty of officials who just walk around with their hand in the air when bringing in subs, not pointed in any general direction.

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[UNIgiantslayers]

I don't think I've ever had an issue with this situation. The guys on my crew are pretty good at eye contact and a nod or a point if they're ready. Usually if they're calling a sub in, waiting for a tied shoe, etc. they are looking in that direction. I can't think of many cases where I put the ball in play without eye contact and a nod.