The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 11, 2015, 12:36pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 768
When you go to games, especially involving officials from your association, ask if you could sit in on their pre-game and half-time. If the opportunity arises so you don't interfere with their game mind-set, ask questions about why they did things you didn't follow.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 12, 2015, 01:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
When you go to games, especially involving officials from your association, ask if you could sit in on their pre-game and half-time. If the opportunity arises so you don't interfere with their game mind-set, ask questions about why they did things you didn't follow.
My football association actively encourages rookies who wouldn't be getting varsity games to ride along with a varsity crew on Friday nights to soak it all in.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 10:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 184
So I survived my first week of scrimmages, and all of your advice and encouragement played a big part in that! Felt a little more comfortable each time out.

Avoided any major issues. . .but obviously still a LOT of minor ones!

-My first jump ball was perfectly straight up. . . .but WAY too high!
-As trail, called an illegal dribble, had all my signals correct and in order, but stayed to administer the throw-in
-As Lead, ball-watching reduced to almost never...but I know it has to be never
-Still sometimes have trouble visualizing my PCA..."free throw line extended" means I feel I need to glance at the FT line to get my point of reference, but that can't be correct, if it takes my eyes off of where they need to be
-During free throws, I need it to become automatic if I see a violation, knowing if it was on the offense or defense
-All my foul calls were "pushes" LOL I need to expand my repertoire!!
-I always reported fouls on the division line, not taking advantage of the entire reporting area
-They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.

So once again, I thank all of you for taking the time to offer me so much valuable advice. My first real game is Dec 22, doubleheader, Freshman Girls, then JV.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit Metro
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
-They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.
Perhaps some of our vets can shed light on this? I've never heard that.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 03:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
-They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 View Post
Perhaps some of our vets can shed light on this? I've never heard that.
Well, to a point, that is true since PCA is more about on-ball coverage.

In 2-person, If the ball is in your PCA, you're on ball and if the ball is not in your PCA, you have off-ball, even outside of your PCA. Example: Lead is covering a matchup in the corner, the trail has the action in the paint. It's the lead's PCA but the lead can't cover the corner action and the paint at the same time.

In 3-person, the same idea applies to some degree as well, but not quite a extensively since the Lead isn't going to get pulled into action that far from the paint. However, there are plenty of times the C goes out of their primary for off-ball action....such as when the T might have a play in the corner but there is screening action around the top of the key.

Once the shot is released and the shooter is down, there is no on-ball coverage any more....and rebounding coverage is a lot more about angles than PCAs. If the rebound comes to the Trail's side with one player behind the other (as is often the case in a good boxout), there is a good chance the Trail will be straightlined. The C has the best view to see if there is a rebounding foul there. (Likewise for a rebound that comes off the rim towards the C).
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 04:07pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 View Post
Perhaps some of our vets can shed light on this? I've never heard that.
Sure, the thinking is that Lead doesn't have a very good look at rebounding coverage. It is better for the Trail to be closing down and help Slot with rebounding coverage than for the Lead to be guessing about displacement.

It's also related to the weak-side block being one of the three areas in which we miss the most plays -- both Lead and Slot have bad angles looking at displacement from their positions and despite being the furthest official from the play the closing-down Trail has the best look.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 10:51am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
Nifty Trick ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
... During free throws, I need it to become automatic if I see a violation, knowing if it was on the offense or defense ...
Somebody taught this (below) to me thirty-five years ago, and I've been doing it ever since.

As either the lead, or the trail, on every free throw, I look at the color of the shooter (let's say it's blue), and I say to myself, "Blue whistle. Blue whistle. Blue whistle ...", over and over, until the shot is released. This reminds me to immediately sound my whistle for an offensive lane violation, while also reminding me to have a delayed violation for a defensive lane violation (to see if the ball goes in, or not).

Like the Alka-Seltzer commercial used to say, "Try it, you'll like it".
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 13, 2015 at 11:00am.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 10:51am
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Job well done, good luck in your first game(s).

As for PCAs not existing, you may want to ask them to elaborate. It's definitely not an FFA, and doing so will result in poor coverage. Trail's coverage includes basket interference, goaltending, and perimeter rebounds. If the shot is on your side it's your job to see if the shot went in or not. IE: Lead has a call and isn't watching the basket -- I would hope.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 11:04am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,379
He Probably Needed The Exercise ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
... As trail, called an illegal dribble, had all my signals correct and in order, but stayed to administer the throw-in ...
So you made your partner run the entire length of the floor, while you just stayed in the same place. Well done grasshopper. You're already learning all the veteran tricks.

I worked a scrimmage with a young buck yesterday. I tried to talk him into working endline to endline while I stayed at the trial the entire six period scrimmage, but he wouldn't go for it.

These young guys aren't as gullible as they used to be.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 13, 2015 at 11:46am.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 02:56pm
Statistician/Ref Hybrid
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Posts: 1,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
-They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.
When I went to camp last summer, one of our association's veterans/officers suggested closing down on shots as the T by taking 2 steps towards the basket. I find this keeps me more engaged with the play and not wanting to change directions prematurely like I had the tendency to do as a rookie.

I've never heard the item about PCA's not existing during rebounding. Our state's mechanics manual shows diagrams where officials should be watching during rebounding action. They may not match the PCAs exactly, but each official has responsibilities during rebounding action.
__________________
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama

The center of attention as the lead & trail. – me
Games officiated: 525 Basketball · 76 Softball · 16 Baseball

Last edited by Stat-Man; Sun Dec 13, 2015 at 03:00pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 07:24pm
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
-My first jump ball was perfectly straight up. . . .but WAY too high!
I did the same thing in a Varsity game on Friday night... it happens.

Quote:
-As Lead, ball-watching reduced to almost never...but I know it has to be never
You will, of course, be ball-watching when the ball is in your PCA as lead (well, you'll be watching the player with the ball and the defender guarding her, but you know what I mean).

Quote:
-Still sometimes have trouble visualizing my PCA..."free throw line extended" means I feel I need to glance at the FT line to get my point of reference, but that can't be correct, if it takes my eyes off of where they need to be
This gets better with time... and at FTLE, when in doubt, let the trail take it.

Quote:
-All my foul calls were "pushes" LOL I need to expand my repertoire!!
-I always reported fouls on the division line, not taking advantage of the entire reporting area
Most of the time, nobody cares what you signal as a foul when you report it, so don't get too worked up over this yet.
As for always going to the division line... better that than some guys who won't even attempt to get to the reporting area.

Quote:
-They told me at our last scrimmage that as Trail, close down when the shot goes up, and you can call any fouls you see outside of your PCA. I know during the entire game you can call outside your PCA, but they said when the shot is up, PCAs do not exist.
Definitely close down when a shot goes up. Yes, this means that you're going to occasionally get beat on a fast break going the other way. Them's the breaks. Besides, it's much easier to officiate fast breaks from behind than it is to officiate rebounding action when you're at the division line.

Quote:
So once again, I thank all of you for taking the time to offer me so much valuable advice. My first real game is Dec 22, doubleheader, Freshman Girls, then JV.
You're welcome. Sounds like you're off to a good start... Just remember the three simple rules: "Slow Down. Call The Obvious. Don't F- It Up"
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 08:19pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
You're welcome. Sounds like you're off to a good start... Just remember the three simple rules: "Slow Down. Call The Obvious. Don't F- It Up"
You're missing the most important rule, however.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 13, 2015, 09:13pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
-As Lead, ball-watching reduced to almost never...but I know it has to be never

This cannot be overemphasized, but it can be overdone. You can see the ball without watching it, just like a number of other things. You do always need to know where the ball is.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 184
Journal - Sorry, very long!

Thanks to all of your helpful comments and support, I am surviving my rookie season. One of the suggestions was to keep a diary, which I have done. Then, since I love to write, I made it into a journal. I thought some of you might want to read it – but I must warn you, it is very long!

Maybe it will bring back memories for you veterans. Maybe it can help a fellow rookie. I just hope it is enjoyable reading.

But most of all, I did it as a way to thank all of you for your invaluable advice. You all have helped me more than you will ever know.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...VBS--W3D0A/pub
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 29, 2016, 07:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 73
Congrats. I appreciate how you listed out areas you wanted to improve on. It can be overwhelming. Someone else mentioned it, but I also recommend focusing on improving one thing at a time. At some point, I accepted that there was no better way to learn than experience. The more I saw, the more comfortable and better I got. YMMV, but that helped me slow down and just focus on learning and doing one key thing really well instead of trying to improve everything at once. I knew I was going to get better just by doing more games. Also, with more experience (or is it age?), you start to appreciate hot moms more.

You might (most likely) have some degree of ups and downs. Just know that it happens to everyone and have faith in yourself. Most importantly, remember it's just MS/HS basketball and that no matter world some coaches or fans live in, it's still not an accepted social norm to be a jackass up about MS/HS basketball. Don't let the bad shit get to you - treat it like you would if some idiot on the street who didn't know you started cussing you out - who the f*** cares what someone who doesn't know you says.

Before I started officiating basketball, when I watched basketball games, I didn't appreciate all the little details that went into an official's duties. When I watched game live or on TV after I first stepped on the court as a ref, my perspective completely changed. If you have the opportunity, I'd seek out local officials that are respected, and watch their games. You can learn a lot by just watching how they position themselves, their mechanics and signaling, and how they communicate. For example, you mentioned you had a lot of pushes; go watch a game and see what the officials call for different types of fouls. Pretend you're the lead and forget about the ball - just focus on the lead's PCA. It is weird to go to a game and watch the refs instead of the ball, but I picked up a lot quickly from that. Even watching NCAA games on TV helped, though more from observing what they deemed as advantage/disadvantage on fouls and signaling moreso than mechanics/positioning (w/ their 3-man crews).

It will be a lot of fun, and it will change the way you view the game of basketball - in a good way. Best of all, you can clearly correct your idiot friends when they complain about calls on TV.

Best of luck!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Team fails to return to the floor after half time. referee99 Basketball 12 Wed Jan 16, 2013 02:57pm
6 on the floor!!! Nate1224hoops Basketball 20 Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:11am
6 on the floor..... Larks Basketball 33 Thu Oct 02, 2003 04:38pm
We are the floor Mark Padgett Basketball 8 Fri Feb 08, 2002 09:24am
Remain on Floor During 30 sec. Time-out tschriver Basketball 4 Mon Apr 16, 2001 03:25pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1