First Time Doing Men's League

[UNIgiantslayers]

Hey guys-

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've really enjoyed you guys' insight since I discovered this forum and appreciate your input. I decided to finally sign up and post this question after talking with a couple of buddies about it.

After being able to avoid him for a few years, my buddy finally roped me in to reffing in his Sunday men's league that he runs as director of Parks and Rec in our town. I've been officiating high school for a few years, so I'm pretty comfortable at that level. My first experience with officiating was with intramurals in college so I've done something similar to the men's league in the past.

My question is this-- In the guidelines for officials, it mentions to expect a certain number of comments from players and deal with them. If they get too bad, issue a warning then a T. I'm a little nervous about this part of the deal because it seems like it's setting the tone of allowing the players to give the officials a bunch of crap. If any of you ref leagues like this during the summer (or in season I suppose), how much do you let go, and how do you handle this to keep things in control but not have rabbit ears? I don't have thin skin by any means, but it also annoys me when coaches constantly chirp at me during high school games, but they're pretty easy to shut down most times with a "I hear you coach, that's enough" or something similar. With these guidelines, I'm not exactly sure what to expect. Any insight or advice you guys can offer would be really helpful. Thanks, in advance.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Hey guys-

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've really enjoyed you guys' insight since I discovered this forum and appreciate your input. I decided to finally sign up and post this question after talking with a couple of buddies about it.

After being able to avoid him for a few years, my buddy finally roped me in to reffing in his Sunday men's league that he runs as director of Parks and Rec in our town. I've been officiating high school for a few years, so I'm pretty comfortable at that level. My first experience with officiating was with intramurals in college so I've done something similar to the men's league in the past.

My question is this-- In the guidelines for officials, it mentions to expect a certain number of comments from players and deal with them. If they get too bad, issue a warning then a T. I'm a little nervous about this part of the deal because it seems like it's setting the tone of allowing the players to give the officials a bunch of crap. If any of you ref leagues like this during the summer (or in season I suppose), how much do you let go, and how do you handle this to keep things in control but not have rabbit ears? I don't have thin skin by any means, but it also annoys me when coaches constantly chirp at me during high school games, but they're pretty easy to shut down most times with a "I hear you coach, that's enough" or something similar. With these guidelines, I'm not exactly sure what to expect. Any insight or advice you guys can offer would be really helpful. Thanks, in advance.

I generally live by the oft quoted creed: "What you permit, you promote."

It's up to you to decide what and how much you and your partner is going to take.

[deecee]

In mens wreck league I would suggest you either don't do it or don't take anything from the players. 9/10 times it's not worth the aggravation.

[Raymond]

When I do adult basketball in the off-season I engage in a lot more conversation with the players. At some point you just say, out loud, "ok, that's enough, play basketball". After that point you then have to follow through when someone crosses the line. Do that a couple times and you will find the players will respect you and move on to either playing basketball or finding another official to whine to.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When I do adult basketball in the off-season I engage in a lot more conversation with the players. At some point you just say, out loud, "ok, that's enough, play basketball". After that point you then have to follow through when someone crosses the line. Do that a couple times and you will find the players will respect you and move on to either playing basketball or finding another official to whine to.

+1

I've enjoyed it actually. Only done it a few times but it's much easier (to me). You can engage a little bit and sorta give their crap back to them if they are a little mouthy. With anything in life, you draw your own line and make it known you have done so and if they don't listen, issue the penalty.


I wish I had a cool signature

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When I do adult basketball in the off-season I engage in a lot more conversation with the players. At some point you just say, out loud, "ok, that's enough, play basketball". After that point you then have to follow through when someone crosses the line. Do that a couple times and you will find the players will respect you and move on to either playing basketball or finding another official to whine to.

Totally agree. In men's league, when they start talking about perceived missed calls, etc., I'll come back with something about how many missed shots their team has which has contributed more to their deficit on the scoreboard than any calls they thought should have been made.

And when it comes time to tell them, "Enough, play basketball," do it loud enough so that everyone in the gym hears you so that 2 minutes later when you have to whack someone, everyone knows why.

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I generally live by the oft quoted creed: "What you permit, you promote."

It's up to you to decide what and how much you and your partner is going to take.

This is key. But it's also key to know to what degree the league will support you. Some officials have shorter fuses than others. It's really up to you to set the tone for your games, but do something to let the teams have an idea of just how much leeway they have with you.

And if the league expects you to take more than you're willing to, than tell your buddy to find someone else.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

This is key. But it's also key to know to what degree the league will support you. Some officials have shorter fuses than others. It's really up to you to set the tone for your games, but do something to let the teams have an idea of just how much leeway they have with you.

And if the league expects you to take more than you're willing to, than tell your buddy to find someone else.

Couldn't agree more.

If the league expects you to just be there for the sake of being there and doesn't support your decisions, then it's just glorified recess and not a good thing for you to be doing.

[Kansas Ref]

Officiating men's wreck league is a whole different beast than your typical 'interscholastic contest' and thus presents several unique challenges. First, there is no "coach" per se; therefore, you must deal directly with the players in resolving protests on in-game issues.
Secondly, many such players are looking for a 'scapegoat' (i.e., someone to assign their poor performance and diminished playing capabilities to): missed a layup under slight defensive pressure--they are always crying 'foul';improper post-play defense technique like holding cutters and arm bar tangling--they will cry "how am I supposed to play defense?"; called for grossly inhibiting RSBQ of ball handler because of their low fitness level and training does not enable them to properly shuffle feet on defense and maintain LGP -- they will often cry "let us play".
Thirdly, there is no 'quality control' over the crew partners you are working with--e.g., you could be a state certified and competent ref whereas your partner(s) could be untutored in the current practice of rules of play and POE--in other words: 'just a good guy [or gal]' the league assignor knows who is free and not watching football on a weekend.
Solutions: as other posters have indicated--to cope with the chirping from such type of players you ought to use "progressive discipline" approach: step 1) issue a warning to players about the chirping and pause to notate the time of such warning to the score table (this acts as a public recording of the event); 2) if such chirping persists, then be strong and serve the cup of T. The other players (both teammates and opposition) will greatly respect you for doing it--male psychology is such that the male respects another man who stands up to him (despite any difference in physical stature). 3) Now mind you that if your partner is less inclined to assertiveness than you are, then you will have problems if you don't pre-game with partner on how you will handle excessive chirpings. 4) when reffing men's wreck league it is very important to impress upon the players that you are the authority figure on the court--that you are reasonable and have a low tolerance for disrespectful behavior. Remember that other men are looking to you to enforce fair play and discipline--you want to be viewed as the "alpha-dawg'' on the court. You want those players to have the perception in their minds that "don't piss off that one ref because he don't take no $h*!(*% in the game".
Lastly, if you are a serious interscholastic ref, then you should be warned that your officiating skills could become moderately degraded by working such wreck league games wherein issues such as proper positioning, mechanics, and other aspects that inhere with an NF game are not emphasized. In otherwords, the wreck league games are basically "glorified recess".

[constable]

I do as little wreck ball as possible. I don't enjoy it. I don't know if I've ever done a game without whacking someone. They are habitual babies.

I take that back- my toddler behaves much better than they do.

I agree- working too much wreck ball will degrade your availability.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by constable

I do as little wreck ball as possible. I don't enjoy it. I don't know if I've ever done a game without whacking someone. They are habitual babies.

I take that back- my toddler behaves much better than they do.

I agree- working too much wreck ball will degrade your availability.

How does working wreck ball degrade your availability? You determine your own availability.

I tell the league that I work that my first priority is to my high school schedule, and I'll give them what I can after that. I have also put them on warning that even if I have games with them, if I get an emergency call from my high school assignor needing a last minute fill-in, I will give them as much notice as possible, but I will go help my HS Assignor when called upon to do so.

[constable]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

How does working wreck ball degrade your availability? You determine your own availability.

I tell the league that I work that my first priority is to my high school schedule, and I'll give them what I can after that. I have also put them on warning that even if I have games with them, if I get an emergency call from my high school assignor needing a last minute fill-in, I will give them as much notice as possible, but I will go help my HS Assignor when called upon to do so.

My bad. I got autocorrected- I meant to say ability.

[jTheUmp]

Rec league work CAN degrade your mechanics and ability... if you let it. The trick is to try not to let it happen.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

...
... you ought to use "progressive discipline" approach: step 1) issue a warning to players about the chirping and pause to notate the time of such warning to the score table (this acts as a public recording of the event)...

That would be considered "doing too much" for most adult leagues.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That would be considered "doing too much" for most adult leagues.

Yeah, but if it's a running clock, as the league I work is, then do it, and take your time doing so.

[bainsey]

I don't do rec basketball (save for a couple of charity tourneys), but I know someone who runs one, and has a simple rule:

Any technical foul is a $25 fine, payable immediately. You can't play again until it's paid.