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To answer the various questions that have arisen (and some that haven't)...
*No, this wasn't a league game though being on a Sunday didn't have anything to do with that. *It was an 8-team tournament (NYC Public Schools vs. NYC Catholic Schools) *The scorekeeper was the only scorekeeper at the table so he was it. I've been involved with similar situations with a single scorekeeper at the table and that person always had sense enough to keep track of timeouts by writing them down. One other thing... *Regarding the "dereliction of duty" comment: While I always speak with the scorers and timers before a game in 20+ years it never occurred to me to ask a scorekeeper - who has a book sitting in front of them with a spot marked "timeouts" - whether they were writing them down. My R has 30 years in and I'm sure it never occurred to him, either. *I don't have my rule book on me since I'm at work so...please find the rule citation that says we have to make sure the official scorer SHALL performer his/her duties. *The R designates the official scorer, etc. and according to the NF manual the R confers with the scorer and timer before the game regarding their responsibilities. Again, if I'm the R and I ask a kid about keeping track of timeouts during the game never in 100 years would it occur to me that the kid wouldn't think writing them down in the scorebook - since they're writing everything else down in the scorebook - wouldn't be a fairly reasonable plan of action. One "other" other thing... *My game was the second of the four-game set. The scorer was the same person in game #1. Presumably he was keeping the info in his head during that game and it never became an issue. The only reason we even found out what was happening is he said it to a HC in my game. We alerted the crew in game #3 that it might want to ask the kid to put pencil to paper on timeouts as well as fouls and the score.
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) Last edited by JetMetFan; Mon Dec 07, 2015 at 01:00am. |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example." "If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..." "Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4." "The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge) |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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As a scorekeeper entering his 10th year I still have a hard time with the fact that the kid was keeping track of timeouts in his head.
Question for those of you who work on the floor: When you come over tableside at the end of each quarter to check the book wouldn't you notice no timeouts recorded and say something right there that the kid needs to be recording timeouts?
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Derryl Trujillo Official Scorekeeper-Woodcrest Christian High School Basketball Referee-Inland Volleyball Officials Association The golfing volleyball ref and official scorekeeper |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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How do I verify the score? I ask the people keeping the books at the table if what they have matches what is up on the scoreboard before I depart for halftime and I do the same somewhere in the last two minutes during a close ball game. |
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In the end, all of this comes down to everyone doing their jobs and in a perfect world doing them without error.
The problem is that errors do occur and as an official, particularly if one is the R, it is important to know how to proceed when an error occurs. This is something which separates officials from each other. How they proceed in unclear or problem situations. Your top guys handle them well and to the satisfaction of others. Lesser officials will not worry too much about it or point the finger at someone else. I try to have someone on the crew with definite knowledge. If I can obtain that knowledge and fix the situation, I will. My best defense to such problems is to be prepared. |
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I equate this to any other knowledge of the game. You might have general knowledge, but what are you going to say if one of the participants do not believe you or buy your knowledge? I know I can look at different books and figure out a mistake, just like we do with any other kind of mistake. But if it is all in my head that is a harder sell IMO to others. It is not about blaming, teams school at the very least keep track of their own timeout situations (at least they do here). Heck they better keep track of their fouls and other important information. But if you the officiating crew is the main line of defense, I think that could cause more problems. We already get accused of having an agenda and now I have to not go by the people that are paid to also do a job.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Do you keep the foul counts on the players, team fouls, and the score too? I've had far more situations where those were in dispute than the number of timeouts.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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For team fouls, I will not administer a throw-in or FT until the team foul has been posted on the board. So for those two things, I have a very good idea that they are correct throughout the game. I do the something similar with the AP arrow. Following each AP throw-in I look to ensure that it has been switched. If not, I hold up the game at the next stoppage and have it switched. For individual fouls the best that I can do is to mentally track those for the top players. It is just an awareness thing, but I don't find it hard to know that the 6-11 guy has three fouls or that the stud forward or point guard has four. Of course, it helps if you have a PA announcer or if the scoreboard operator flashes the individual fouls on the board. I make an effort, but I also know that at some point there is only so much you can do. |
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I keep track by the scorers book at the table. What ever they say is what it is. Now when I am at tournaments, and each team has their own book and there is one at the table and we have a problem, I would bring both books to the table. If both the team books are different than the one at the table, then we can fix something. If not, it's what the table says.
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Last edited by OKREF; Mon Dec 07, 2015 at 08:44am. |
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