Ugly mess of a situation

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

I get the logic. If anyone comes off the bench during a fight, it's a flagrant T regardless of what they may say. There is an exception for the HC to come out and assist with breaking up the fight. If the coach does or says anything that might inflame the situation, I could see running him.

If he actually breaks up the fight first, then says something on the way back, maybe not. If he mouths off and then proceeds to break up the fight, there's a decision to be made.

I'm interested in what others may think of a T here. While I'm an advocate of not holding them back, this is a situation where I may just let it go -- depending how/what the coach says.

With how horrible the sportsmanship was from the two ejected players I'd have to imagine something happened before their shoves.

Seems like I would have to have something good to have a T here. If he's just protective over his players and voices he think I missed something previously...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm interested in what others may think of a T here. While I'm an advocate of not holding them back, this is a situation where I may just let it go -- depending how/what the coach says.

With how horrible the sportsmanship was from the two ejected players I'd have to imagine something happened before their shoves.

Seems like I would have to have something good to have a T here. If he's just protective over his players and voices he think I missed something previously...

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but I get tired of people giving excuses to adults because "they're just (insert sports cliche here)." They're adults, and the coach needs to focus on preventing this thing from getting worse. By blaming the refs on his way out, he's doing the exact opposite.

[Refhoop]

With how horrible the sportsmanship was from the two ejected players I'd have to imagine something happened before their shoves.

Seems like I would have to have something good to have a T here. If he's just protective over his players and voices he think I missed something previously...[/QUOTE]

I agree!

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm interested in what others may think of a T here. While I'm an advocate of not holding them back, this is a situation where I may just let it go -- depending how/what the coach says.

With how horrible the sportsmanship was from the two ejected players I'd have to imagine something happened before their shoves.

Seems like I would have to have something good to have a T here. If he's just protective over his players and voices he think I missed something previously...

Just to be clear, it wasn't the ejected players' coach that was T'd as your post implied, it was the visiting coach...the one whose player was shoved.

We are discussing two separate issues here - one is a matter of rule, the other a matter of judgement.

The question the OP originally posed was if the penalties for the T's were administered correctly by rule, and I agree with numerous others that they were not.

The second issue that has evolved in the discussion here is with the T on the visiting coach (note that the OP did not question the T on the VC, just how the penalties were administered). This is a matter of severity of conduct as judged by the game officials - it's one of those HTBT situations.....

If the game officials judged the coach's comments as worthy of a T, I have no problem with that. As to whether it was worthy of a flagrant T and ejection, that's another judgement they have to make based on the situation.

Regardless of what might have prompted a coach's unsportsmanlike action, his conduct stands on it's own and you penalize accordingly.

It's easy to be an "arm chair" official with 20/20 hindsight, but in reality only the game officials present have the immediate knowledge to make those judgements.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Just to be clear, it wasn't the ejected players' coach that was T'd as your post implied, it was the visiting coach...the one whose player was shoved.

We are discussing two separate issues here - one is a matter of rule, the other a matter of judgement.

The question the OP originally posed was if the penalties for the T's were administered correctly by rule, and I agree with numerous others that they were not.

The second issue that has evolved in the discussion here is with the T on the visiting coach (note that the OP did not question the T on the VC, just how the penalties were administered). This is a matter of severity of conduct as judged by the game officials - it's one of those HTBT situations.....

If the game officials judged the coach's comments as worthy of a T, I have no problem with that. As to whether it was worthy of a flagrant T and ejection, that's another judgement they have to make based on the situation.

Regardless of what might have prompted a coach's unsportsmanlike action, his conduct stands on it's own and you penalize accordingly.

It's easy to be an "arm chair" official with 20/20 hindsight, but in reality only the game officials present have the immediate knowledge to make those judgements.

My post implied the V coach was the one we're talking about. Not sure what you're talking about.

As for the original post, I agree with how the officials dealt with everything up to the administering of the calls.

I'm not debating the initial call, but wondering what people are letting fly here from the VC. Since specifics weren't discussed from the OP, I figured it would've be an interesting topic.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Dad

My post implied the V coach was the one we're talking about. Not sure what you're talking about.

As for the original post, I agree with how the officials dealt with everything up to the administering of the calls.

I'm not debating the initial call, but wondering what people are letting fly here from the VC. Since specifics weren't discussed from the OP, I figured it would've be an interesting topic.

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm interested in what others may think of a T here. While I'm an advocate of not holding them back, this is a situation where I may just let it go -- depending how/what the coach says.

With how horrible the sportsmanship was from the two ejected players I'd have to imagine something happened before their shoves.

Seems like I would have to have something good to have a T here. If he's just protective over his players and voices he think I missed something previously...

forgive me if I read it wrong.........

[Dad]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

forgive me if I read it wrong.........

You're forgiven.

[junruh07]

If a coach come of the bench in a situations where a fight has or may break out, he can do that. If he uses that opportunity to do anything else, he gets very little lee-way. He does not get to use the chaos of that situation to yell at me or an opponent.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by junruh07

If a coach come of the bench in a situations where a fight has or may break out, he can do that. If he uses that opportunity to do anything else, he gets very little lee-way. He does not get to use the chaos of that situation to yell at me or an opponent.

Everyone did decent with their jobs in this situation:
Officials disqualified players and gave a deserving T to the coach; and the coach - possible surrogate father - for the kid should be ejected when his kid was attacked by two opposing players. No one has to take anything personal...

[BillyMac]

Minor point. With very rare exceptions, high school players are not ejected, they are disqualified. Only adult bench personnel can be ejected in a high school game.

However, here in the Constitution State, when a player is disqualified due to two technical fouls, or a single flagrant foul (technical, or personal) officials have to complete an ejection report. Go figure?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Minor point. With very rare exceptions, high school players are not ejected, they are disqualified. Only adult bench personnel can be ejected in a high school game.

However, here in the Constitution State, when a player is disqualified due to two technical fouls, or a single flagrant foul (technical, or personal) officials have to complete an ejection report. Go figure?

When that form came out they ejected players.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

With very rare exceptions, high school players are not ejected, they are disqualified.

10.5 Situation: ... However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require
that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the
vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to
remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to
subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting
harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who
has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor.
It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the
circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it.