The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 633
Observation: Impediments to Moving Up

One of the issues that we have discussed on this forum is: "What criteria are involved in helping refs in "moving up" the officiating ladder?"

We have cited issues such as "years of experience", "familiarity with assignors", "performance evals", "managing your arbiter", and a ref's ability to exercise "discerning judgement on the 'gray areas' of game management"--among other factors. However, at a recent association meeting--one of the panelists raised this question: "have you ever noticed any of the High School State playoff or NCAA refs with facial hair, beards, or mustaches?". The group of us attendees paused, then there was a collective faint "...ummm no" response. The panelist then said that "NCAA refs and their leaders all said that they do not want anyone on their crews with facial hair." And, furthermore that this was an accepted norm/restriction.
So, given this issue of grooming--do you think that the same bias/discrimination inheres with keeping good junior high & high school level refs from advancement? (i.e., just because they have facial hair is there such oblique discrimination in-play ?).

Last edited by Kansas Ref; Tue Nov 24, 2015 at 05:10pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
One of the issues that we have discussed on this forum is: "What criteria are involved in helping refs in "moving up" the officiating ladder?"

We have cited issues such as "years of experience", "familiarity with assignors", "performance evals", "managing your arbiter", and a ref's ability to exercise "discerning judgement on the 'gray areas' of game management"--among other factors. However, at a recent association meeting--one of the panelists raised this question: "have you ever noticed any of the High School State playoff or NCAA refs with facial hair, beards, or mustaches?". The group of us attendees paused, then there was a collective faint "...ummm no" response. The panelist then said that "NCAA refs and their leaders all said that they do not want anyone on their crews with facial hair." And, furthermore that this was an accepted norm/restriction.
So, given this issue of grooming--do you think that the same bias/discrimination inheres with keeping good junior high & high school level refs from advancement? (i.e., just because they have facial hair is there such oblique discrimination in-play ?).
Looking the part goes a long ways in determining opportunities to move up. I work in government finance, and I expect my staff to look the part. When I have a job opening, if someone shows up for an interview with fluorescent colored hair, or a nose-ring, or even multiple earrings, no matter how good they looked on paper, I'm likely going to hire someone else.
__________________
If you ain't first, you're LAST!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 06:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
facial hair has always been a no no. Maybe a nicely trimmed beard, but I haven't seen it. In the end with officiating cream rises. Know the rules. Know how to communicate with players and coaches. Be in the right spot, and most importantly KNOW THE GAME.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 07:07pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,785
I hire at the varsity level for 22 (soon to be 24) high schools and I hire people with beards, glasses, and other no-nos at other levels.

(1) This is HS basketball.
(2) I want the best play-callers and game managers.
(3) This is HS basketball.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:03pm
High Five Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 669
It is highly frowned on in our area. I think it is RIDICULOUS, but then again, my day job only allows a small mustache anyway. I prefer to wear a neatly trimmed beard, I really prefer the look I have with it as opposed to clean shaven or mustache. Plus, my wife prefers beard too but job won't allow it.

I have heard on pretty good authority that the staff at the Missouri State final four have razors on hand for officials who show up with facial hair. Silly silly crap to worry about if you ask me


I wish I had a cool signature
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I hire at the varsity level for 22 (soon to be 24) high schools and I hire people with beards, glasses, and other no-nos at other levels.

(1) This is HS basketball.
(2) I want the best play-callers and game managers.
(3) This is HS basketball.
I love this attitude. Having a beard has no bearing on whether or not an official is good.

That said, almost nobody I work with or see working higher level games in my area has facial hair. So it's a When In Rome situation for me.

I let my beard grow during the offseason until I work camps/clinics/HS summer leagues.

I shaved for the winter the night before my first high school game.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
I love this attitude. Having a beard has no bearing on whether or not an official is good.



That said, almost nobody I work with or see working higher level games in my area has facial hair. So it's a When In Rome situation for me.



I let my beard grow during the offseason until I work camps/clinics/HS summer leagues.



I shaved for the winter the night before my first high school game.

+1. And agree with Rich, shouldn't matter at the HS level. But I would say that if you have aspirations higher than HS.....well you never know who might be in a gym observing you on any given night. Enough said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:24pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,531
The only facial hair I have ever seen on any official at the high levels are Black or African-Americans and that is only a mustache that is groomed very neatly. No beards or sideburns. And usually the hair is conservative and short or balled.

At the high school level you will see more variations, but for the most part officials that work a lot of high level high school ball look just like a D1 or NBA official when it comes to grooming.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 24, 2015, 11:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 862
I was at a game this weekend where one of the officials on the other court had a beard and longer hair that wasn't styled at all.

Quite frankly he looked like a bum on the street.

To me, that would just draw unnecessary attention to an official who had that appearance. I'd like to avoid that, so while I like having a beard, I go without it during the season.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:45am
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Facial hair is a big deal for one of my assignors (happens to be biggest assignor in the state) who got on me last year for some 1 day old stubble I was wearing. A dude from down south showed up with facial hair at the state finals and was whispered about, but the state administrators didn't seem to care. Depends on the ref I guess, most old school guys don't like it.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:12am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
One of the issues that we have discussed on this forum is: "What criteria are involved in helping refs in "moving up" the officiating ladder?"

We have cited issues such as "years of experience", "familiarity with assignors", "performance evals", "managing your arbiter", and a ref's ability to exercise "discerning judgement on the 'gray areas' of game management"--among other factors. However, at a recent association meeting--one of the panelists raised this question: "have you ever noticed any of the High School State playoff or NCAA refs with facial hair, beards, or mustaches?". The group of us attendees paused, then there was a collective faint "...ummm no" response. The panelist then said that "NCAA refs and their leaders all said that they do not want anyone on their crews with facial hair." And, furthermore that this was an accepted norm/restriction.
So, given this issue of grooming--do you think that the same bias/discrimination inheres with keeping good junior high & high school level refs from advancement? (i.e., just because they have facial hair is there such oblique discrimination in-play ?).
What do the officials who work the level you aspire to reach do in regards to facial hair? Once you get to that level and are established, then grow facial hair and create the new standard.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:22am
Aztec-Irishman
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I hire at the varsity level for 22 (soon to be 24) high schools and I hire people with beards, glasses, and other no-nos at other levels.

(1) This is HS basketball.
(2) I want the best play-callers and game managers.
(3) This is HS basketball.
I am a big fan of Rich and his comments.

Remembering our Interpreters meeting: "When doing HS games, use HS mechanics. When doing College games, use College mechanics."

Be passionate about your profession and always work on improving, no matter which area you are focusing on.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 04:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,742
We've beaten the facial hair horse dead, so let me shift gears. I invite a discussion about wedding rings to begin. Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 04:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 782
They are considered jewelry, so the players are not allowed to wear them . . .
__________________
To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . .
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 25, 2015, 04:33pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,531
Wedding rings are the only jewelry acceptable to wear that can be seen.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Before Observation CDurham Basketball 4 Mon Oct 04, 2010 09:52pm
Just An Observation mrmotivation Basketball 24 Mon Jan 21, 2008 02:54pm
OSU/MSU observation eyezen Basketball 10 Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:55am
Quick observation... Dan_ref Basketball 27 Sun Apr 17, 2005 07:42pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1